This can't be all that difficult to fix, can it? Icerat had a whole slew of ideas about how he was going to improve the forum when he asked for money, but if he just fixed the completely broken thing here I'd be mostly happy.
Can we have an update on the state of the ISF?
- Thread starter Orphia Nay
- Start date
This can't be all that difficult to fix, can it? Icerat had a whole slew of ideas about how he was going to improve the forum when he asked for money, but if he just fixed the completely broken thing here I'd be mostly happy.
Several grand? Where did you see that?
The amount is not really the point though is it?
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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I counted up the number of donors and picked an average amount of $50, which is in line with what actual donations are visible.
AmyStrange
Illuminator
I can't start donating until the end of December of this year, and it won't be much (probably about 5$ a month), but I can't seem to find where to donate. Please, PM me the answer if it's something that shouldn't be in the public forum.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Have a look at this post https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14238316#post14238316
Please note that "First half 2024" has passed yet none of what he promised has happened. Several people have donated, yet nothing has been reported back.
AmyStrange
Illuminator
Thank you, and I'll definitely keep your post in mind, but it's not a good sign that I can only donate in €s.
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kali1137
Illuminator
I was one of the people who did donate. I would strongly suggest that you don't donate at this time. The best I can figure one of two things has happened. Owner was mildly motivated to work on the forum, but when things turned out to be work, he walked away again. Or two, it was just a sad quick money grab. In either case, he has yet again abandoned the forum with no updates, explanations, or even a two second check in - which is the least we deserve. I personally will not be wasting any further resources on this forum unless it changes to the hands of someone trustworthy.
AmyStrange
Illuminator
I personally will keep paying if that can make the forum persist. I do not care for all the big plans. It would be nice if it happened, but it is much more important to keep the forum running.
I do not feel that my contribution has been wasted.
kali1137
Illuminator
If there was any word or update instead of dead silence I would be more willing to give benefit of the doubt.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
I am psychic. I predict that an update, by Icerat, will be made tomorrow evening (Icerat's time). Now where is that $1m prize? This information is reliable.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I vote that we band together and collectively buy the forum back from Icerat. We have people qualified to maintain and update the site.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
How do you see us making a return on that investment?
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
He paid nothing for it.
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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Sounds like a rinse & repeat.
You'd want a valuation. Going by this site, site value looks to be around 20 times the monthly ad revenue. This site specifically talks about forum values, but is 15 years old, when forums were still a thing.
I estimate this place makes maybe 5 bucks a month from advertising*, so it's worth about $100.
If only people realised the proven value of online forums against the cesspool of social media, maybe more people would care.
*Going by numbers when it was JREF and attracted exponentially more visitors, the $5 may be a wild over-estimate, particularly now it's not getting actual visitors.
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
I see the possibility of a third thing.
He asked for donations, did not receive enough to do the requested things, made some progress, but has had to put the forum on the back burner, while concentrating on clients that actually bring in money.
This. Thanks for your post.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
The return is the ongoing maintenance and update of the forum.
I don't know about you, but I don't post here for the purposes of profit.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
If that's the case he could just pass it on to us. I don't know why he won't just let go of it.
"Just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post. What do you think needs to be put in place to run and maintain the forum?
kali1137
Illuminator
Right but if that were the case, there is zero reason to not take two seconds to tell us that is the case instead of just leaving us high and dry. Especially when it has been noted that said owner finds time to be active on other social media. I really love this forum. I have learned a lot and my thinking has been changed for the better. That is why I was willing to donate.
But a pattern has formed here. Small bursts of participation, big promises, some effort, then dead silence and total abandonment with no explanations. It is hard not to feel like a sucker when you have fallen for it more than once.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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You should get some lessons in apologetics, because that's pathetic.
I was going to post an actual response, but someone else already did, so I'll repeat it:
I know you didn't ask me, but I'm going to respond on the basis that you have no knowledge of forums and how they do or don't work, because if you were an admin of a forum site it would be a really stupid question.
1. It needs to be visible to non-members. This can be achieved for a very small amount of money, and if we say Icerat collected $2500 (which I think is a very low estimate, since we know some people are still paying) then he could do this for an annual fee less than 10% of that income.
2. Given the decline in discussion forums worldwide, a sensible forum owner would look to grow the place. Along with some sensible promotional ideas, see point 1.
3. Take part in the forum. Randi hardly ever engaged with the forum, to its detriment. Even the Almighty Himself, Richard Dawkins, when he owned a forum, was a very active participant, as were the late Douglas Adams and even Pyrrho at SC. Why would anyone want to own a forum then not participate in it?
4. Building trust with the people who make up the forum - posters.
How's that going?
5. Be honest about your intentions. Icerat has time and time again said "I'm going to do this...." and nothing happens. See point 4.
If you want more, just ask.
Thermal
August Member
Seems the good Mr icerat checked into the forum a couple weeks ago. No posting or anything, but I guess it's good news that we were not altogether forgotten. I feel special.
You should get some lessons in apologetics, because that's pathetic.
I was going to post an actual response, but someone else already did, so I'll repeat it:
I know you didn't ask me, but I'm going to respond on the basis that you have no knowledge of forums and how they do or don't work, because if you were an admin of a forum site it would be a really stupid question.
1. It needs to be visible to non-members. This can be achieved for a very small amount of money, and if we say Icerat collected $2500 (which I think is a very low estimate, since we know some people are still paying) then he could do this for an annual fee less than 10% of that income.
2. Given the decline in discussion forums worldwide, a sensible forum owner would look to grow the place. Along with some sensible promotional ideas, see point 1.
3. Take part in the forum. Randi hardly ever engaged with the forum, to its detriment. Even the Almighty Himself, Richard Dawkins, when he owned a forum, was a very active participant, as were the late Douglas Adams and even Pyrrho at SC. Why would anyone want to own a forum then not participate in it?
4. Building trust with the people who make up the forum - posters.
How's that going?
5. Be honest about your intentions. Icerat has time and time again said "I'm going to do this...." and nothing happens. See point 4.
If you want more, just ask.
I have to commend you on your reslience in this regard.
icerat
Philosopher
Hi folks,
Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Further upgrades will be proceeding this weekend. Notice to go up soon, expect chaos.
(PS: I haven't read the thread, just the topic, seemed a good a place as any to post a quick update, I won't be engaging in any discussion either for now)
Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Further upgrades will be proceeding this weekend. Notice to go up soon, expect chaos.
(PS: I haven't read the thread, just the topic, seemed a good a place as any to post a quick update, I won't be engaging in any discussion either for now)
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Thanks for checking in. Sorry it's been a hard time for you. I hope your situation is improving.
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
From icerat's ISF Staff site notice:
"The forum will be undergoing maintenance this weekend from approximately noon Friday, October 18 through Monday October 21. The site will be offline completely for significant periods over this time."
"The forum will be undergoing maintenance this weekend from approximately noon Friday, October 18 through Monday October 21. The site will be offline completely for significant periods over this time."
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
That means the forum will be down five days or more. I only hope it will be a significant upgrade from 3.7.7 CSS.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I count four days.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
The forum will not be back until Tuesday GMT. So it is Friday.
Things take longer than what people think.
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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Hi folks,
Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Given that disease and divorce were the reasons you gave for years of inattention several months ago, does that mean you've had more disease and another divorce, or is it still the same cop-out you gave for not doing anything for years prior to the Modest proposal thread?
Just checking.
ETA - the original thread that caused nothing to happen was 2016: https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303199
I'm not even going to bother mentioning that's 4 whole years before covid.
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Chanakya
,
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2015
- Messages
- 5,805
Hi folks,
Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Further upgrades will be proceeding this weekend. Notice to go up soon, expect chaos.
(PS: I haven't read the thread, just the topic, seemed a good a place as any to post a quick update, I won't be engaging in any discussion either for now)
Yep, life can be a bitch sometimes. A crazed, snarling bitch, that you hope isn't rabid and won't do you in for good.
This too shall pass. Or so they say.
Good wishes, cheers.
Chanakya
,
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2015
- Messages
- 5,805
icerat hasn't even said the word "divorce" on the forum since 2013.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Done a search for all of icerat's posts. Could not find any excuses as to why this forum has not been upgraded. Did find several interesting posts which I have quoted below.
So what have I missed?
Well, it's about 7% of the active membership at present, so not that many, (though obviously thank you to each and every one of them)
Working out how much I've spent over the past X years to do your "reckoning" will take quite a while.So short answer, no.
Either I come through and deliver something worthwhile for now and the future, or I don't. Your mileage may vary.
For now I've decided not to sell it, so for a number of reasons I won't publicly be revealing data on it. In any case, no, it's not expensive to keep running as is, but it probably generates a lot more traffic than people think, and it does cost me money. (albeit not a lot - but it has added up over the years.)
Basic upgrade and migration with assistance from Xenforo is going to cost in the order of $US500, so not a bank breaker. But there's the entirely unknown costs of dealing with all the current custom stuff that breaks, and custom integrations I'd like to do in the future. Running costs are going to depend on strategic choices on how to host it, how successful we are at growing it - and how we go about growing it.
First things first.
1. Stabilising current performance - done
2. Migrating to modern software and mobile friendly - in process. Current goal is to do this next week. Stuff will break.
3. Fix broken stuff.
4. Implement new features (eg blogs/articles)
5. Work out a sustainable, scalable method to pay for it all
6. Grow
