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Bush backs Sharon Peace Proposal

a_unique_person

Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
a_unique_person
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So, it's all been decided, not that anyone would notice. Maybe Bush decided that, compared to everything else, this issue really just doesn't figure in the scheme of things anymore, and he really couldn't care less.

Basically, Sharon gets what he wants, and George and will agree with it. He is too stuffed to bother with it any more.

Gaza wiil be evacuated, and the 'settlements' that amount to no more than a pile of bricks or a trailer in the West Bank, ditto.

The settlments that are embedded in Palestinian towns such as Hebron, who knows.

What the Palestinians think, who knows.

What the rest of Likud thinks, well, that could be interesting. So far, the die-hard fanatics have had their way. Will they be beaten now, or will Sharon be beaten. Stay tuned for developments.

In a historic break with longstanding policy denounced by Palestinian leaders, President George W Bush today endorsed Israel's retention of settlements in the West Bank in any peace accord with the Palestinians.

Bush also ruled out the return of Palestinian refugees to Israel.

An elated Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said his plan to pull back from parts of the West Bank and Gaza, hailed by Bush, would create "a new and better reality for the state of Israel".

But Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie - with whom the Bush administration deals while boycotting leader Yasser Arafat - strongly criticised Bush's move.

"He is the first president who has legitimised the (Israeli) settlements in Palestinian territories," Qurie said of Bush. "We as Palestinians reject that. We cannot accept that. We reject it and we refuse it."

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat had earlier called it "the complete end of the peace process".

Palestinian leaders had previously said they had been assured by the Bush administration they would be consulted before any Bush endorsement of Sharon's plan. No Palestinians were present during the announcement by Sharon and Bush - in what was sure to be seen by the Arab world as a strong favouring of Sharon and a slight to the Palestinians.
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http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/15/1081838831474.html
 
And if anyone had any doubts about Blair...... you just have to read with what unalloyed vigour he has accepted this destruction of the Palestinian position and aspirations. Was he ever interested in the Palestinians? Quite evidently not. It was just Israel! Goodness me. What's new!
Even as this unilateral move sees the Roadmap completely cast aside, Blair (whom I am finding it difficult not to loathe), lectures the Palestinians on their responsibilities on this very process... the one that Sharon and Bush just placed a great big turd on and flushed down the pan.

From the Guardian - "But they were welcomed by Tony Blair last night. A Downing Street statement said the international community, led by the "quartet" mediators - the US, EU, UN and Russia - must seize the opportunity to inject new life into the road map peace process. "Israel should now coordinate with the Palestinians on the detailed arrangements," Mr Blair's statement said.

"The Palestinian Authority must show the political will to make the withdrawal from Gaza a success and to deliver on their road map responsibilities, especially regarding security." "

This is such a depressing state of affairs, this numbskulled attack on the Muslim world by a murder of idiot crows running the US, the UK and sundry craven satellites. If you have any time for the Palestinians at all then we should feel sad and deeply ashamed by the US and UK complicity in this.
 
I'm getting the feeling, in my ignorance, that those more versed than I on the subject are less than overjoyed with the recent developments.

Once again, I apologize not only for my lack of knowledge, but any seeming indifference.

"It just seems that everyday is just another rotten mess
And when its gonna change my friend is anybody's guess.
So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin' hopin' for the best,
Even think I'm goin' to prayin' every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay that trouble comin' every day.
No way to delay that trouble comin' every day."
--Frank Zappa (1965)
 
Originally posted by subgenius
I'm getting the feeling, in my ignorance, that those more versed than I on the subject are less than overjoyed with the recent developments.

Once again, I apologize not only for my lack of knowledge, but any seeming indifference.
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It's not that complex. A handful of people who spent a lot of time excusing the Palestinian-Arabs refusal to participate in negotiating a bilateral solution are now mourning a unilateral solution that is likely to be less favorable for the Palestinian-Arabs than they had hoped.
 
Mycroft said:


It's not that complex. A handful of people who spent a lot of time excusing the Palestinian-Arabs refusal to participate in negotiating a bilateral solution are now mourning a unilateral solution that is likely to be less favorable for the Palestinian-Arabs than they had hoped.
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Its more a case of the Palesinians not being consulted at all, there was no 'refusal' to negotiate as there was no invitation in the first ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ place.
 
Mycroft said:
It's not that complex. A handful of people who spent a lot of time excusing the Palestinian-Arabs refusal to participate in negotiating a bilateral solution are now mourning a unilateral solution that is likely to be less favorable for the Palestinian-Arabs than they had hoped.
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This is harldy the case Mycroft. This decision doesn't leave any rrom for negotiations and if this is what the democrats or republicans need to vote this is not what the people of Israel have in mind every time they get the bus and they are afraid that will be exploded.
 
I try to stay out of the Palestine/Israel threads simply because I don't view there as being a simple aswer to the situation, nor to I find there to be many redeeming qualities about either "official" side. (I do think most non-governmental Israelis, as well as non-extremist Palestinians simply want some fair, peaceful arrangement, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.)

I am weighing in on this thread because I feel the need to say this:

W. can't even broker a decent unifying attitude within the US, he should be kept as far away from the Israel/Palestine issue as humanly possible.
 
Yes, this is a complete disaster for world peace. Forget Bush's pathetic press conference, future historians will remember this announcement. I cannot believe that Blair has backed it. If I was a Palestinian, or any arab, I would interpret it as nothing less than an open declaration of WWIV. There is no way on earth that the Palestinians could even think about accepting a deal which leaves 100,000 Jews in major settlements on the West Bank. That is NOT a "viable palestinian state". Instead, it is an attempt to consolidate illegal territorial annexations of Palestinian land by Israel. Far from leading to peace in the middle east, this agreement between Bush and Sharon may finally succeed in opening the gates of hell.
 
Presumably the boundaries just happen to be where the fence is going up, by a strange coincidence.

But, as I said before, we haven't even heard what Likud and other extremists will make of the withdrawal from the settlements not covered by the wall.
 
Now why would Bush be interested in legitamising the principle that certain land occupied during time of war can be retained if it is "necessary" for the occupier?

The way I see it, there are three ways the Israeli/Palestinian conflict can end:

Outright victory for Israel - difficult to see how that can ever be achieved while there are still Arab's alive.

Outright victory for the Palestinians - difficult to see how that can ever be achieved while there are Israeli's alive.

A mutually agreed deal which both sides accept as the basis of a long term solution.

This deal falls within none of the above, so I would expect the conflict to rumble on and the bodies to pile higher on both sides. Hope I'm wrong.
 
a_unique_person said:
Presumably the boundaries just happen to be where the fence is going up, by a strange coincidence.
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No, some of the Jewish settlements that under this settlement will be "Jewish for all eternity" are further inside Palestinian land than the wall. This is a further annexation beyond the wall.
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
This deal falls within none of the above, so I would expect the conflict to rumble on and the bodies to pile higher on both sides. Hope I'm wrong.
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It is worse than that. Before yesterday there was at least some attempt by Israel and the US to listen to the concerns of those parts of the international community which were trying to be neutral. Now, all pretence at listening to those neutral voices has been dropped. The conflict will not just "rumble on". It is going to get much worse. Osama Bin Laden is trying to split Europe and the US by offering a truce to the Europeans. Personally, I am hoping that Bush has done enough damage to US credibility in Europe that this now becomes a real possibility.

What Americans still do not appear to understand is that 9/11 was the result of decades of heavy-handed and strategically inept middle-eastern policy. This agreement with Sharon is possibly the most inept piece of middle-eastern foreign policy I am yet to see. There appears to have been no "Hmmmm, I wonder how this is going to be received in the wider arab world" going on in Bush's head. It will be received in the arab world with disbelief and anger on a previously unseen scale. If the US wanted to unite the entire arab world against it, it could not have done any better than endorsing this "peace initiative" by Sharon. This will also further undermine the US position in Iraq, and threatens to alienate the Europeans at just the same time OBL is trying to drive a wedge between the US and Europe by offering the Europeans a truce if they stop backing the US.

In short, if you think you have got problems now, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
 
JustGeoff said:


No, some of the Jewish settlements that under this settlement will be "Jewish for all eternity" are further inside Palestinian land than the wall. This is a further annexation beyond the wall.
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Is that eternity going to be as long as the last eternity?

The thought occurred to me the other day, after reading about on Israeli saying he was looking over the same landscape that David did thousands of years ago. Presumably, the view for Israelis will last just as long, perhaps a hundred years.
 
Have a look at how it is being reported in the UAE, arguably the most liberal and westernised of the Arab states :

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...il/middleeast_April410.xml&section=middleeast

Bush’s statements and an exchange of letters with Sharon in the same vein were likely to go down well with conservative supporters of Israel and some Jewish voters in the US presidential election in November.

But it could harm US interests in the Arab world and hurt efforts to stabilize Iraq.

“The Americans will, as a result, only reap hostility among the people of the Middle East. This US administration is dealing with the world as if it’s a Texas ranch,” said Jibril al-Rajoub, security adviser to Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.
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Think about it. What has been "proposed" is that all Palestinian refugees must be homed in Gaza and the West Bank, but that Israeli settlers in the West Bank be allowed to stay. Forget the extremists - not even a reasonable-minded person could possibly accept such a solution. It is daylight robbery. The United States will reap a bitter harvest for its actions. The US has learned NOTHING from its previous mistakes.
 
a_unique_person said:


Is that eternity going to be as long as the last eternity?

The thought occurred to me the other day, after reading about on Israeli saying he was looking over the same landscape that David did thousands of years ago. Presumably, the view for Israelis will last just as long, perhaps a hundred years.
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I don't think it will even last that long. Israel could have tried to live in peace with its arab neighbours, but instead it chose expansionism with no regard to the misery of the Palestinians. Israels security is guaranteed only by the United States, but the United States is currently losing its political and economic grip on the world, and I see no reason to believe it will ever regain that grip. Sooner or later, and I think it will be sooner, the US will find itself in a position where it has so many political and economic problems of its own that it can no longer afford to guarantee the security of Israel. When that happens, the Jews can go and live in America, because there will be no safety for them in the land they stole from the Palestinians.

100 years from now, China will be the worlds foremost superpower and Israel will not exist.
 
JustGeoff said:


I don't think it will even last that long. Israel could have tried to live in peace with its arab neighbours, but instead it chose expansionism with no regard to the misery of the Palestinians. Israels security is guaranteed only by the United States, but the United States is currently losing its political and economic grip on the world, and I see no reason to believe it will ever regain that grip. Sooner or later, and I think it will be sooner, the US will find itself in a position where it has so many political and economic problems of its own that it can no longer afford to guarantee the security of Israel. When that happens, the Jews can go and live in America, because there will be no safety for them in the land they stole from the Palestinians.

100 years from now, China will be the worlds foremost superpower and Israel will not exist.
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Israel did not choose as such. I think the problem is that no Israeli wants to be seen as being 'anti-semitic'. Look at what happens to the likes of Chomsky and Finkelstein, they aren't 'real Jews'. The majority of secular Jews, AFAIK, have never wanted to annexe the West Bank and Gaza, not even Ben Gurion. It was the tough nut, "I'm a better Jew than you" types who insisted on forcing the issue. Tail wagging the dog.
 
JustGeoff said:
Have a look at how it is being reported in the UAE, arguably the most liberal and westernised of the Arab states :

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...il/middleeast_April410.xml&section=middleeast



Think about it. What has been "proposed" is that all Palestinian refugees must be homed in Gaza and the West Bank, but that Israeli settlers in the West Bank be allowed to stay. Forget the extremists - not even a reasonable-minded person could possibly accept such a solution. It is daylight robbery. The United States will reap a bitter harvest for its actions. The US has learned NOTHING from its previous mistakes.
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Previous mistakes? What previous mistakes? The US has never made any mistakes. The US cannot ever make any mistakes.

At least that´s what I keep hearing from some people here. I have my own opinion on that matter.
 
Chaos said:


Previous mistakes? What previous mistakes? The US has never made any mistakes. The US cannot ever make any mistakes.

At least that´s what I keep hearing from some people here. I have my own opinion on that matter.
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Well, George couldn't think of any!
 
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