Boycott Nestle

[Soubrette]

Do you agree that if a lactating mother stops feeding her baby breastmilk then her supply will dry up?

Yes. But it's a huge jump to say that trying Nestle milk makes a baby dependant on Nestle milk. Some mothers can use both breast-milk and formula. Some mothers would rather breastfeed, and others not. Nestle's simply making their product available for "demo". Also, mothers can use breast pumps as well, right? They can also go to a generic product that costs less, if they are "dried up".

It never comes to a point where a mother will either use Nestle milk or watch their baby die.

Indeed but what I'm trying to show is that choosing to use formula milk in general means that the choice to use breast milk is vastly diminished.

In fact it takes about three weeks for the hormone that makes a woman lactate to return to normal which means that if you bottle feed exclusively for the first three weeks then your breast milk dries up. It is very hard to reinstate this - it can be done but mostly with drugs.

This means that in general you don't try bottle feeding for a few weeks - decide it's not for you and go on to breast feeding.

Do you accept that to be true? Forget the nestlé stuff for a second - I want to make sure we're on the same page with every thing else

Sou

 

[thaiboxerken]

This means that in general you don't try bottle feeding for a few weeks - decide it's not for you and go on to breast feeding.

Do you accept that to be true? Forget the nestlé stuff for a second - I want to make sure we're on the same page with every thing else

It could be true, I'm no expert. If it is true, I still don't see anything unethical here.

 

[jj]

Bottle feeding and breast feeding are based on the same principle. You stick a hungry baby's lips to the nipple and they suck away.

JK

Spoken like someone who's never had a baby to care for.

That's NOT how it works with mon. Would you like to revisit this, do some homework, and tell us how it's really done?

That is, if you can read words like that and not explode.

P.S. It's only 2 data points but ours both used natural and bottle feeding. Both prefered natural by a very large margin, and seemed to have little trouble figuring out which was which. Your milage may vary.

 

[gethane]

Bottle feeding and breast feeding are based on the same principle. You stick a hungry baby's lips to the nipple and they suck away.

JK

Sir, do you every consider just NOT TALKING when you have nothing useful to say? Since you are a man, I'm POSITIVE you have not breastfed. I, on the other hand, have breastfed 3 children, and can assure you that the mechanics involved in breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding are QUITE different. I'll not talk about penises as if I have experience, if you'll not talk about breastfeeding as if you do.

Since you have no personal experience OR scientific evidence to back up your claim, please shut up.

 

[jj]

how is that an old wives tale? clearly a bottle's nipple was modeled on a human nipple. and anyone who has seen an infant put against a lactating woman's breast knows that they "suck away" if they are pregnant. gosh, i never thought i would find myself defending JK.

Err, you clearly never helped a mother breastfeed or milked a cow. (No, the two are not the same, but some of the same principles apply.)

 

[jj]

That is ridiculous.

JK

No, it's right. You really ought to shake off some of that insane ignorance. Telling people that the two are the same does have the potential to hurt someone, too.

Although the most likely person it would hurt would be a nursing mom, and from your prior disgusting behavior, you probably don't much care about that.

 

[jj]

Sadly I must agree, Athon really needs to back that claim up. I really fail to see why bottle feeding would impede breast feeding, and whether. Also how common is this? Common enough to become a profitable marketing ploy?

Perhaps you should just go to a good, scientific (not one of the many nutcase) book on breastfeeding. Learn how it works. Athon is dead on.

My experience is also "anecdotal" in that I'm a guy, but I got to help my spouse cope, twice.

The two simply do not work the same. A bottle does not "let down", it just squirts. A bottle does not require anything like the same sized mouth opening or the same mouth and tongue behavior.

Before you shoot your mouth off more, GO READ UP. The material is there to read.

Perhaps if you did a search on "breast feeding" and "oxytocin" you might find something on the net, dunno.

 

[specious_reasons]

Junk science.

Encouraging mothers to try bottle feeding before or in conjunction with breast feeding is the junk science here.

 

[jj]

Babies for example will even suck on a finger, I don't see why they'd suck on a fnnger and refuse a nipple.

GO read something about how the process works. AFTER you do that, maybe you'll understand.

It's actually a bit more complicated than you seem to think.

 

[jj]

If a mother dies during childbirth, is the father then better off
to:

A. Ask the nearest lactating, HIV-negative female if she has some free time, say a year, and thinks you're cute?

B. Bolt from the delivery room while simultaneously dialing Ralph Nader on your cell phone?

C. Sue the hospital for killing the only woman you truly ever loved and auction the rugrat off to the highest black-market adoption bidder?

D. Feed the kid some f.....g formula.


geeezz! and what are two male partners desiring to raise an infant to do?

I don't think anyone is arguing that bottle feeding is worth than nothing.

What's your point? Some people must bottle feed. Some people just can't, for whatever reason, breast-feed. (Even "standard" couples.)

 

[jj]

It never comes to a point where a mother will either use Nestle milk or watch their baby die.

You're claiming a negative, Ken? I think you might want to think that over again, both from logical and medical grounds.

If the mom dries up (with first children quite a few moms have trouble getting lactation going well, btw) she MUST.

 

[Soubrette]

This means that in general you don't try bottle feeding for a few weeks - decide it's not for you and go on to breast feeding.

Do you accept that to be true? Forget the nestlé stuff for a second - I want to make sure we're on the same page with every thing else

It could be true, I'm no expert. If it is true, I still don't see anything unethical here.

Ok - but we both agree that once bottle feeding has been chosen then there really is no realistic way that the vast majority of mothers can change their mind.

So really the description of being dependent on the bottle is true, yes?

Sou

 

[specious_reasons]

If the mom dries up (with first children quite a few moms have trouble getting lactation going well, btw) she MUST.

....and formula is given away more freely to expectant parents of first children. I would estimate we got 1.5-2 times the amount of free formula for my firstborn than my second.

For the record, both of my children, my wife never was entirely comfortable with breast feeding. We did it for 2 months for the first and 1 month for the second. Our firstborn had difficulty because she would fall asleep without filling herself, and our son was colicky, and wanted to eat constantly. We supplimented breastfeeding with bottle feeding so she could get some rest.

Neither of our children had too much trouble eating from either source, once they figured out the difference.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You're claiming a negative, Ken? I think you might want to think that over again, both from logical and medical grounds.

It's a claim based on fact. One doesn't have to buy Nestle forumula, there are other companies out there.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Ok - but we both agree that once bottle feeding has been chosen then there really is no realistic way that the vast majority of mothers can change their mind.

So really the description of being dependent on the bottle is true, yes?

Sou

No, because a mother doesn't need to try the bottle for more than a session.

 

[Soubrette]

No, because a mother doesn't need to try the bottle for more than a session.

Do we have any evidence she is given just one free session thai? I would say economically that would not be in the company's best interests.

Sou

 

[Soubrette]

Do we have any evidence she is given just one free session thai? I would say economically that would not be in the company's best interests.

Sou

I'm trying to find some facts on how many feeding sessions a mother would expect to get - I'm not able to at the moment but here's a report in the British Medical Journal.

http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7381/127?ijkey=wdTivVGidY5Bo#T2

It seems clear that Nestlé has in the past (ie since 2001) breached the WHO guidelines on marketing formula milk.

Sou

 

[Soubrette]

Here's where maybe that fact about baby's suckling:

http://www.gvnews.net/html/DailyNews/alert3195.html

From that article:

'When newborn babies are given a bottle, they are less able to suckle well,' said James Grant, executive officer of the United Nations Children's Fund (Unicef). 'This makes breastfeeding failure likely, and the baby is then dependent on artificial milk.

the interesting thing is for what proportion of babies this is the case.

There is also some descriptions of alleged Nestlé practices when handing out their free samples

Sou

 

[thaiboxerken]

Do we have any evidence she is given just one free session thai? I would say economically that would not be in the company's best interests.

Sou

LOL. I think you are subtly accusing Nestle of forcing people to try their product for a period of time. The simple fact is, if a mom decided to quit using the baby forumula after one session, Nestle cannot force her to. They might encourage her to give the formula a chance, but I see nothing unethical about that.

Since these products are being offered in a hospital, maybe we should be blaming the doctors for not educating parents about breastfeeding.

A mother can try Nestle for just one session, if she so chooses. A mother can also not even try Nestle.

 

[thaiboxerken]

This is hilarious, the conspiracy theories are just propagating now. The product is free and it is not being forced upon people.

If anything, instead of fighting Nestle and trying to boycott them, maybe these people should be educating would-be mothers about the benefits of breast feeding.