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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

Bitcoin valued at $15 billion has been seized by the Department of Justice (DOJ) from a massive "pig butchering" network, and in what officials say is the "largest forfeiture action in U.S. history."


Federal prosecutors in Brooklyn, New York, unsealed an indictment Tuesday charging Chen Zhi, also known as "Vincent," leader of the Prince Holding Group, in connection with the crypto scam scheme, based out of Cambodia.
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www.foxbusiness.com

Billions in bitcoin seized by DOJ from massive 'pig butchering' crypto scam in Cambodia

Federal prosecutors charged Chen Zhi with operating forced labor camps across Cambodia that executed alleged 'pig butchering' scams targeting crypto investors.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
 
psionl0 said:
You just contradicted yourself.
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Well done. If you understood the sentence after "irrelevant" you would have realised I knew that and it was a commentary on your attempted dismissal of relevant facts.

psionl0 said:
Maybe.


This is just pure made up BS.
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Nothing sustains the price of BTC other than people believing they will be able to sell it to somebody else for more money than they paid. This is a fact.
 
psionl0 said:
Bitcoin is open source software. There are no copyright issues.
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This statement is wrong in several ways.

  • Bitcoin is not software
  • Software for manipulating and mining Bitcoin does not have to be open source
  • Open source software is not immune to copyright issues
The Great Zaganza said:
Looks like there is a fight about the upcoming update to Bitcoin Core, the software most nodes run on. The change would allow for much bigger files to be attached to coins, potentially slowing down or excluding some nodes from transfers and causing legal problems if illegal or copyright protected material is attached to a coin for exchange.
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I'd like to see your source for this. I'm in agreement with psionl0 on this one. I wasn't aware that there was a capacity to add attachments to Bitcoin transactions.
 
news.bitcoin.com

Bitcoin Drops to $107K, Triggers $714M in Liquidations

The crypto market plunged below $3.8T on Oct. 16, with Bitcoin dropping to $107,625 amid investor caution and U.S. political uncertainty.
news.bitcoin.com news.bitcoin.com

bitcoin wipes out some more. tether printer working overtime trying to keep this propped up, saylor sweating bullets. well not really, he’s selling the treasury stock and taken the fiat so he’ll be fine.

how’s the price of gold? store of value and all.
 
www.tomshardware.com

PayPal crypto partner accidentally mints stablecoins worth double the world’s total GDP — Paxos undersells $300 trillion incident as an ‘internal technical error’

PYUSD stablecoin is marketed as being ‘fully backed by US dollar deposits, US treasuries, and similar cash equivalents.’
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com

another interesting thing, paypal stablecoin paxos minted $300t stablecoins. they burned them pretty quickly after their mistake. but, yeah, you can just mint stablecoins and call them as good as a dollar and exchange them freely for other crypto, including bitcoin. fully backed? but you can mint them regardless right? tether has been doing that for years.
 
jeremyp said:
Well done. If you understood the sentence after "irrelevant" you would have realised I knew that and it was a commentary on your attempted dismissal of relevant facts.
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Yeah right. That is what you meant. :rolleyes:

jeremyp said:
Nothing sustains the price of BTC other than people believing they will be able to sell it to somebody else for more money than they paid. This is a fact.
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Still made up BS. Every object of speculation works on the same "belief".

jeremyp said:
This statement is wrong in several ways.
  • Bitcoin is not software
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Are you really going to hang your entire argument on a grammatical technicality? The software for bitcoin is open source. Happy?
 
psionl0 said:
<snip>

Still made up BS. Every object of speculation works on the same "belief".

<snip>
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The belief may be the same, but speculating on the price of physical assets vs crypto currencies is qualitatively different. If the price of gold drops to a low value you still have a piece of gold with some utility whose value will increase again in the future. The moment a crypto currency stabilizes its utility drops and so its value drops, further reducing its utility. I.e., crypto's utility is tied to people believing it will rise in value. Once people believe it will not rise in value no one wants it because it will only ever fall in value. A crypto's stable point is as wide as that of an inverted pendulum. Fiat currencies would have the same problem, which governments get around by insisting you pay taxes in their currency.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The belief may be the same, but speculating on the price of physical assets vs crypto currencies is qualitatively different. If the price of gold drops to a low value you still have a piece of gold with some utility whose value will increase again in the future. The moment a crypto currency stabilizes its utility drops and so its value drops, further reducing its utility. I.e., crypto's utility is tied to people believing it will rise in value. Once people believe it will not rise in value no one wants it because it will only ever fall in value. A crypto's stable point is as wide as that of an inverted pendulum. Fiat currencies would have the same problem, which governments get around by insisting you pay taxes in their currency.
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and you need to look no further than the hundreds of crypto coins that crashed and will never recover.

you've acquired some crypto, you can either sell it at a profit or sell it at a loss, or keep it. literally nothing else can be done with it. bitcoin isn't any different in that regard.
 
dirtywick said:
you've acquired some crypto, you can either sell it at a profit or sell it at a loss, or keep it. literally nothing else can be done with it. bitcoin isn't any different in that regard.
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As far as I know, it is still the preferred currency for paying ransomware attackers.
 
dirtywick said:
even stolen crypto can only be held, or sold for a profit or a loss
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True, but the victims may acquire the crypto in order to pay for a “service”. And I am sure that there are other criminal services or goods that can be bought with bitcoins.

The advantage for criminals is that it is easier to get hold of than a suitcase full of cash. The criminal who acquires the bitcoin in this manner need not bother too much about the exchange rate: it is all profit.
 
steenkh said:
True, but the victims may acquire the crypto in order to pay for a “service”. And I am sure that there are other criminal services or goods that can be bought with bitcoins.

The advantage for criminals is that it is easier to get hold of than a suitcase full of cash. The criminal who acquires the bitcoin in this manner need not bother too much about the exchange rate: it is all profit.
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they often do, as you can see from the article earlier about the bitcoin atms.

but it’s ultimately unimportant how you got the bitcoin. it’s traded either at a profit or a loss relative to what it was obtained for. nothing else can be done with it, which is why the commodity comparisons are poor imo
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The moment a crypto currency stabilizes its utility drops and so its value drops, further reducing its utility.
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Although you are not calling it an article of "faith" this time, you are still making up a huge steaming pile of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. If a crypto ever "stabilizes" then you would be able to use if for its intended purpose - unimpeded value transfers.
 
For those who want to know the good, the bad and the ugly about bitcoin without the woo and BS, here is a 15 minute video that is quite informative:

BITCOIN: A STATELESS CURRENCY IN A LAWLESS WORLD
 
psionl0 said:
Although you are not calling it an article of "faith" this time, you are still making up a huge steaming pile of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. If a crypto ever "stabilizes" then you would be able to use if for its intended purpose - unimpeded value transfers.
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You've missed my point: a crypto cannot have a stable value, because as soon as people believe it will not increase in value fewer people will want it and its value will drop, making fewer people want it...until no one wants it.

Unlike a physical asset that has some intrinsic utility, or a state backed currency which is given value by the government insisting tax is paid in that currency, a crypto just offers accurate entries in ledgers. The financial system based on state backed currencies already provides that. No one is seriously claiming that commercial banks can't be trusted to do double entry bookkeeping for money transfers, or that it is difficult to transfer money without paying huge transaction fees.
 
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