Bioelectromagnetics

[cogreslab]

From: http://www.spiritualpage.com.au/coghillreport.pdf

This is about the "Spiral of Tranquillity"

The top of every page in the report contains the header: Protective effect of a device on lymphocyte competence in vivo. (my emphasis)

They say that is the complete report as submitted to them.

I am grateful for Prag pointing this out. and it is possibly my typo error, since the Conclusion of that report (as of course the entire body of the text) clearly says the study was in vitro. Again I point out it was taken from a website other than mine, and I will now look to see what our own website says.

 

[cogreslab]

As I thought, we do not carry that report on our website. I suspect that the term in vivo in the header either was my typo, for which I apologise, or the header was tampered with after we sent it to the client. The entire report makes it clear of course that this was an in vitro study, as did the conclusion, (and also said further work was necessary).

 

[Lucianarchy]

Thank you.

Let me explain a few things. Before I joined this forum, for quite some time I had been reading various posts, just for interest and amusement. This thread caught my eye for two reasons:

a) It was related to electromagnetics which is an area I am interested in.
b) It had some relation to biohazards of EM radiation which I am also interested in.

And so I watched with some interest because I AGREED with your initial premise that some potential biohazards of EM were being underestimated. That does NOT mean that I agree with your specific claims, just that I was sympathetic to your cause.

But as I watched the thread develop I became increasingly disturbed by the fundamental boo boo's you were making in basic physics. And it was your arrogance to Bill that finally prompted me to join in and comment.

At that point I thought you were a bit of a harmless crank. And I tried to discuss science with you. But look where that got me! You were never interested in any serious scientific discussion. Instead you just toss out the same tired propaganda and pseudoscience over and over again.

So then I started to seriously wonder what you were up to. Because in my experience when people falsely claim to be scientists there is usually an ulterior motive. And the more I find out about you, the less I like it. You are a scaremonger. You use the fear and ignorance of the lay public to promote yourself and also to promote the sale of highly suspect "protection" devices. And now I find out that you intentionally victimized an innocent man and deliberately and maliciously damaged his business to again promote yourself.

And before you deny that you didn't do that, you are on record as telling a newspaper that Wayne Morgan had told you that his sales had dropped by 30% by the time of the first pre trial review. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, we don't know what other damage you did after that.

It gets better. After all your bluster about how you were the VICTIM of a conspiracy, we now discover the truth - that you and others CONSPIRED to set up this mobile phone guy!

And who exactly ARE these others I wonder. I have a suspicion that at least one of them may have been the manufacturer of certain dubious "protective products". Any comment?

Then I find circumstantial evidence that seems to indicate that the tax payers of Wales are funding your schemes?! AND you are part of a political party seeking to influence the government of that region!!!!

And finally, we have the "Coghill Challenge", which is apparently an incitement to commit an act of child abuse in breach of worldwide experimental ethics and human rights. Now, I know it will never happen. But that isn't the point. You use this disgusting mechanism to SCARE the lay public into believing your BS and to promote yourself even further. A normal member of the public will never know that this "challenge" can never be performed, and they will think that you have "won" your case. That is fraud sir, pure and simple.

The deeper I look, the more outrageous it gets. No, this is no diversionary tactic, that is what YOU engage in, I do not stoop to your level.

"diversionary", my arse.

?? Your whole post there was one big ol' gum-flap fest. All opinion, all self-rightous and, frankly, all hot-air.

You need to debunk the science, Garbo.

Science And not with your opinion. With evidence.

 

[cogreslab]

"You sell alleged "medical products" including at least one "medicinal supplement". I have also seen references on the web to you giving training and "therapy" with magnets. You have never presented any license to us.

What medicinal products, pray?

Offering a home study course in magnet therapy is not selling medical products. Another diversionary tactic, Prag?

 

[cogreslab]

Thanks Lucianarchy. My apologies for confusing you with another poster.

I really did applaud your concise value judgement of Prag's latest "science"!

As you say of Prag's latest effort:

"diversionary", my arse.

?? Your whole post there was one big ol' gum-flap fest. All opinion, all self-rightous and, frankly, all hot-air.

You need to debunk the science, Garbo.

Science And not with your opinion. With evidence."

And I am still waiting for a response to the evidence and scientific references I gave him from Warburg and Szent Gyorgii. Of course Prag is bound to know better than these two Nobel Prizewinners.

Judging by the speed with which he can read reports on third party websites and report the typos (but not the content) back, it should not take him long to reply.


__________________

 

[Lucianarchy]

No probs, Roger.

I think you'll find Garbo, et al would rather everyone looked into the dust cloud coming from their stamping feet, than into the actual science.

 

[Lucianarchy]

Oh, and expect them to soon compile a 'list' of questions that they will demand you answer.

G'night.

 

[cogreslab]

Moulder's question 6:

(EMF and Cancer)

6) How do ionizing electromagnetic sources cause biological effects?

This is the first of a trilogy of questions, and I am not quite sure why it is being brought into a discussion of (non-ionising) Powerline fields and cancer, except perhaps as a prelude to the erroneous argument that only if chemical bonds are broken is there an adverse effect on health. That argument has largely been dispelled because it is increasingly acknowledged that ELF electric fields can cause disruption of life processes without bond breaking, e.g. by depolarisingf the inner mitochondrial membrane.

"Ionizing electromagnetic radiation carries enough energy per photon to break bonds in the genetic material of the cell, the DNA. Severe damage to DNA can kill cells, resulting in tissue damage or death. Lesser damage to DNA can result in permanent changes which may lead to cancer. If these changes occur in reproductive cells, they can also lead to inherited changes (mutation). All of the known human health hazards from exposure to the ionizing portion of the electromagnetic spectrum are the result of the breaking of chemical bonds in DNA. For frequencies below that of hard UV, DNA damage does not occur because the photons do not have enough energy to break chemical bonds. Well-accepted safety standards exist to prevent significant damage to the genetic material of persons exposed to ionizing electromagnetic radiation.


I have no particular objections to Moulder's statements here, which in any case lie outside the field of ELF EM fields.

 

[BillHoyt]

I repeat my statement that I paid no costs whatsoever, nor did I pay any costs to the defendant. All my costs were paid by third parties, including the costs of the barrister. The solicitors handled the case on a pro bono publico basis. Sorry, but you got it wrong again Bouncer.

Rog,

You must really enjoy your dentist visits, given your penchant for making others pull your teeth to ferret out the truth. Okay, so you want to play quibbling word games, fine. Your SIDE, sir, lost the case. Your SIDE, roger, paid the costs.

Now answer my questions, sir.

 

[BillHoyt]

"This "challenge" is a blatant incitement to violate Articles, 5, 6, 8, 14, 18 and 24 (amongst others) of the Helsinki Declaration 2000 as currently ratified by most countries in the world, relating to Ethical Principles for Medical Research Involving Human Subjects. And I haven't even looked for the breaches of generic or European Human Rights, or statutes relating to Child Abuse".

Your value judgment is laughable. First there is no medical research involved, secondly I am forcing no one to do anything. And thirdly if you regard putting a child into an ELF field recommended as perfectly safe by the regulatory authorities, then clearly there is no abuse.

You are hoist with your own petard, Prag.

Read, rog, read. He said "incitement," not "force." More word games to cover your bankrupt morals? You're disgusting.

 

[BillHoyt]

To Bouncer:

Now I can read your post, would you be good enough to explain to us how the carcinogen alters the blueprint code?, as you have claimed below:

"What happens with a carcinogen is the carcinogen manages to force a significant alteration of the blueprint code.

This step appears to be missing in your explanation. And what happens when there is no carcinogen (e.g. in the example of Goldblatt et al)?

When are you going to answer the questions, sir? When are you going to quit shucking and jiving? And may I suggest a little research on the relationship between "genes" (no, not at the Gap) and mutagens, teratogens and carcinogens?

 

[Lucianarchy]

Okay, so you want to play quibbling word games, fine.

Damn you, Billy Hoyt!!!

I was asleep there until the global consciousness shuddered with a huge distrurbance in the Psirony-ether .

 

[BillHoyt]

Oh, and expect them to soon compile a 'list' of questions that they will demand you answer.

G'night.

Capital idea, Luci!

Everybody, please begin posting your portions of the RogerDodger list. We'll follow the rules I outlined days ago. I'll try to keep them in order, and we'll just keep posting them until RogerDodger actually answers them. Following that, the question will be set aside, as happened with...

Funny, I can't think of an example of RogerDodger honestly answering a question. Odd, eh?

 

[cogreslab]

Prag said:

"And now I find out that you intentionally victimized an innocent man and deliberately and maliciously damaged his business to again promote yourself".

Yet another unsupported peice of groundless invective!

Before bringing this case I visited Wayne Morgan and presented him with a large number of studies to show that there can be a health risk from excessive cellphone use. He read all these, and when I came back a few weeks later said he had been amazed and was quite prepared to put a notice in his shop. However he had been warned by his suppliers of cellphones that if he did so they would refuse to suipply him any more.

Faced with this dilemma we tried to find a solution but all the time we came up against the implacable response of the cellphone industry that any retailer bringing the safety of cellphones into question would suffer cessation of supply. The same applied to anyone trying to sell screening pouches, and even hands free kits were only permitted if they did not rely on health issues for their sale.

So Wayne was between a rock and a hard place, and they all hoped I would simply go away. They were wrong. And when after much effort I managed to get the case into Court, the cellphone industry pledged they would pick up Wayne Morgan's costs win or lose, so he went ahead.

Don't ever put forward the idea that I was deliberately damaging the business of an innocent man, Prag. The cellphone industry was doing that, for their own selfish and completely commercial motives, whether the public user suffered or not. Without their pressure Wayne Morgan was quite prepared to give admonitory advice to the public. Now he has to do it by Government order, thanks to that court case.

AS for your comment that I am a scaremonger, you fail to take on board that I am one of perhaps 2000 scientists all around the world who have signed a declaration demanding a lowering of the EMF exposure limits. You are in a miniority within the scientific community, Prag old boy.

 

[Pragmatist]

"You sell alleged "medical products" including at least one "medicinal supplement". I have also seen references on the web to you giving training and "therapy" with magnets. You have never presented any license to us.

What medicinal products, pray?

Offering a home study course in magnet therapy is not selling medical products. Another diversionary tactic, Prag?

A new game. Spot the (contradictory) medical claim......

Asphalia comes from a Greek word meaning safe from harm.

During the last century we have fundamentally changed our world. Today's new technologies rely on electricity, and electricity in all its forms inevitably emits electromagnetic fields (EMFs) or radiation. The static magnetic fields are not a problem: we have always been exposed to the static fields of the earth, and they are even beneficial. But moving electric fields, even at very low levels, are hazardous to human and animal health. There are many cellular, live animal, and even some human studies which confirm this problem, though it is still not conceded by the power utilities or telecoms conglomerates.

With prudent avoidance we can mitigate exposure to most EM fields and radiation. We can shorten the duration of our cell phone calls, or make sure we buy homes away from power lines or transforming substations. We can use duvets not electric blankets. But not always. Inevitably some people find new cell phone masts erected close to their houses, and often these are even disguised to avoid objection. Often the work environment means exposure to high EMFs. The National Radiological Protection Board admits that man made radiation in large city centres now exceeds the previous natural levels many thousand fold.

Nothing is for nothing in this life. Every rose has a thorn, and Nature rarely bestows a risk less benefit. Our wonderful technology leap has had repercussions. One study recently showed that childhood leukaemia increased in line with electricity consumption. Others have found that breast cancers, brain tumors, Alzheimer's, depressive illness, myalgias, asthenias, and other 'modern' auto immune disorders are associated with exposure to EMFs.

We are beginning to find out why these very weak fields have such surprisingly important effects. Twelve different laboratories now have confirmed that one adverse effect of EMFs is on a brain hormone, whose central importance was scarcely discovered in the mid 1980s. At night the human brain's pineal gland secretes melatonin, and this hormone acts not only as a powerful antioxidant - more powerful than any vitamin - but also helps prevent ill health. Its secretion is switched off by light, because the pineal is a light sensitive organ.

But the pineal cannot distinguish between the electromagnetic waves of natural light and artificial EMFs. We are simply not prepared for EMFs by evolution. So exposure to EMFs from any source has the effect of switching off synthesis of this important hormone, and thereby increasing our propensity to ill health and other immune-related disorders.

We all want our nice convenient technological world. But none of us want a compromised immune system. Our laboratory has pondered this dilemma for some years, and has finally uncovered a safe solution: Asphalia.

Asphalia isn't a medicine, it isn't vitamin, it isn't a drug, and it works electrically not chemically. It is a system not a single preparation. Made from entirely natural organic products Asphalia makes sure you have adequate supplies of melatonin every night, whether your body is making it to any extent already or not. At the same time you will never become dependent on Asphalia once you start a course. This way even if there are cell phone masts radiating or power lines near your home they will not deplete your vital supply of this central hormone.

There is more. Before you start a course we have found it useful to prepare your body. So we have added a second component, free. You don't have to take it more than once or even at all if you prefer. This small once-off solution - we call it WFK1 after the initials of its inventor - is a homeopathic preparation of 1,4 benzoquinine, diluted a million times in distilled water. We make no medical claims for this preventative, but what it does is to assist in seeing that your metabolism is healthily oxidative and not perniciously glycolytic. Its chemical structure is similar to ubiquinone (sometimes known as CoQ10), a biomolecule ubiquitous in all living creatures which plays a vital part in making the energy we need to live. In high dilution WFK1 is completely harmless, but it will have no effect if you have taken Asphalia first.

Moreover, before you take the WFK1 and Asphalia we strongly recommend a four day regimen to make sure they "take". Smokers should give up for these four days, (which will save them the cost of the whole treatment anyway!) and meat and coffee or tea are also on the prescribed list. This is so the preparations can be properly absorbed into the system. You only need to do this once, the first time to start the system

There are no side effects to these products if taken according to the dosages recommended. One final thing. Because they work electrically their bottles/phials should be stored inside a metal light-proof container, such as is supplied with the starter kit. Don't just keep the bottles in the fridge unprotected!

After then we send you a monthly supply until you ask us to stop. Recognising that this kind of adjuvant is little understood, we will be pleased to discuss the system or its bioelectrochemistry at any time during normal office hours, on this website are links to the studies on which we rely, together with our own research studies.

 

[Pragmatist]

As I thought, we do not carry that report on our website. I suspect that the term in vivo in the header either was my typo, for which I apologise, or the header was tampered with after we sent it to the client. The entire report makes it clear of course that this was an in vitro study, as did the conclusion, (and also said further work was necessary).

Don't worry about these Roger, they're not from your web site. Guess that makes it O.K. then? I mean it's not YOUR responsibility to put this right is it?

From: http://www.virilityhealthstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=75

Roger Coghill of the UK states, "Not only does the RA*D*AR give complete protection, in addition, RA*D*AR users will find that their immune system increases in excess of 20%".

And here it is again: http://radar-global.hypermart.net/info.htm

One product which does give 100% protection is RA*D*AR. Roger Coghill of the UK states, "Not only does the RA*D*AR give complete protection but, in addition, RA*D*AR users will find that their immune system increases in excess of 20%".

From: http://www.fostac.ch/eng/infocoghille.asp?frameset=true

In 2001, the Coghill Laboratories in Gwent [England] examined the blood of a 60-year old healthy man in a series of ten different tests, in order to ascertain whether mobile phone radiation harms the organism.

and...................

All test series proved that the FOSTAC® CHIP harmonized the radiation. To the scientists' great astonishment, moreover, the number of viable lymphocytes even increased.

One presumes this refers to the "in-vitro organism"....? And the increased lymphocytes "in-vitro" came from where precisely? Perhaps it was the "in-vitro" bone marrow?

 

[Pragmatist]

To Prag:

It saddens me Prag, that as my scientific responses to your questions get stronger and better supported by the independent peer reviewed evidence you demand,

Point out ONE example of where I have demanded "independent peer reviewed evidence". I have demanded you prove your claims about electromagnetics. The only evidence offered is the WHO website....

you resort more and more to denigration as a means of response. You raised a number of issues in a recent post, and I have responded with scientific evidence to all of them.

Point out which post you allege to have done this in.

Rather than discuss these you appear to have abandoned any scientific discussion for sheer invective. Pity, I thought skeptics were solidly grounded in facts, not in using emotive allegations in place of argument.

Yada, yada, yada....yawn....

I've given you more reasoned argument than you deserve. It would have been nice if I had received reasoned answers....

I have brought to this thread a well constructed and science based argument about carcinogenesis,

Which is of zero interest to me since I never claimed to know anything much about biology. And as far as I can tell, the people who DO know something about biology think it's BS too - anyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I have put befiore you a number of facts relating to the issue of EMF exposure guidelines, and have also been prepared to defend the bioeffectiveness of static magnetic fields, all of which which I thought you wanted to explore in a scientific manner.

Yeah, we discussed that. And the "evidence" you presented for your claim about static fields was a reference to a paper about moving fields and/or moving ions in static fields. Which you agreed was not relevent to your claims.

It turns out all you now want to say is "You are rubbish , Coghill", and for a number of reasons unrelated to science, without giving any valid reasons for your "opinions".

Well, not many people reading this thread will be impressed with your arguments Prag.

If you do not want to debate this matter, but simply to throw insults at people, then there seems little point in continuing this as a dialogue.

I've given plenty of reasons for my opinions. I am not responsible for your inability to comprehend them.

Your entire credibility as well as your motivations are in question. YOU questioned the credibility and motives of others (including me) long before I questioned yours. But you wouldn't like people to do to you what you do to them would you?

 

[Pragmatist]

"This "challenge" is a blatant incitement to violate Articles, 5, 6, 8, 14, 18 and 24 (amongst others) of the Helsinki Declaration 2000 as currently ratified by most countries in the world, relating to Ethical Principles for Medical Research Involving Human Subjects. And I haven't even looked for the breaches of generic or European Human Rights, or statutes relating to Child Abuse".

Your value judgment is laughable. First there is no medical research involved, secondly I am forcing no one to do anything. And thirdly if you regard putting a child into an ELF field recommended as perfectly safe by the regulatory authorities, then clearly there is no abuse.

You are hoist with your own petard, Prag.

It is an INCITEMENT to commit abuse of a child. The abuse of the child would consist of using the child to conduct ANY sort of experimental procedure that may put the benefits of another (including society as a whole) above that of the child, regardless of whether it is specifically harmful or not. And it's YOU that believe the child would be harmed which would then be unequivocal abuse, as the expectation and intention of the researcher is paramount.

Weasel all you like. You are advocating a criminal act.

 

[Pragmatist]

"He's selling "devices" (little metal pendants and things) which he claims will "completely protect against EM radiation".

Where on my website?

What? Forgotten already Roger? I'd really ease up on those magnets if I were you, they are clearly having an apoptotic effect on the old brain cells!

Of this Harmoniser (a third party product) we say on our online shop:

"Promotes that feeling of wellbeing and gain personal protection most RF radiations with this pendant device. Also available in Silver and Gold.
The Harmoniser protects against ambient radiation of all frequencies using the technique of implosion. IMPLOSION is a word derived from the research of Schauberger, a Scandinavian water engineer, and its protective effects have spiral tube for wear around the neck. For all around protection at most RF/MW frequencies".

I take your point. What what we were trying to say that the protection is limited to RF/MW frequencies, but I can see how the text might be misinterpreted and will have it changed. (We may actually take the Harmoniser off our list altogether, actually, since a recent replication test did not show the effect we saw at first, and I beleive the design has been modified since our first investigation). Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Pragmatist]

What medicinal products, pray?

Offering a home study course in magnet therapy is not selling medical products. Another diversionary tactic, Prag?

And these are...WHAT....exactly? And doesn't one need a medical licence to give medical advice...?

From: http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/magcatalog.htm

a) ACUMED MAGNETIC PATCHES

We have been trying these patches out on human cells in petri dishes, and are convinced of their effectiveness in improving oxidative phosphorylation, in other words that they can improve energy synthesis and lower myalgia levels.



b) Micro magnetic patches for joint and muscle pains. Apply these adhesive magnets to dry skin on the affected area. Their static fields will gently alleviate muscular and joint pain. They can only be applied so that the south pole is the one facing away from the skin, which some scientists claim is important for the best therapeutic action. Change the patches after five days.



c) We have been researching this type of magnet for five years, and have found they can ease muscular pain dramatically, especially those pains arising from poor circulation.

Accordingly long lorry drivers, office workers, computer operators, the bedridden, in fact almost anyone sitting or lying in one position for any length of time can benefit from these effects. In today’s sedentary TV watching society that means most of us! We don’t claim our magnets can cure breast cancer or arthritis (though they help considerably with arthritic pain) but we are sure they improve blood circulation, are analgesic, and help restore energy levels in oxygen -impoverished limbs.


d) The Coghill Supermagnets also help relieve depression and jet lag. In fact, we organised the First World Congress in Magnetotherapy in London during 1996. where experts from Universities and hospitals all round the world told of the effectiveness of magnetotherapy in clinical practice. These magnets because of their beneficial effects on blood circulation and oxygen delivery, are rapidly finding a place in the doctors’ remedial armoury.


From: http://www.holisticguide.net/MAGNET.htm

MAGNET THERAPY TRAINING IN THE UK:

Coghill, Roger, MA Cantab, British Institute of Magnet Therapy, Ker Menez, Lower Race, NP4 5UH
Tel: +44 (0)1495 752122 Email: enquiries@cogreslab.co.uk Web site: www.cogreslab.co.uk


From: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684869675/103-6737945-7299020?v=glance

The Book of Magnet Healing : A Holistic Approach to Pain relief
by Roger Coghill (Author)

Editorial Reviews
About the Author
Roger Coghill is a Cambridge-trained research biologist specializing in the effects of electromagnetic fields on human, animal and planetary health. The founder of the Institute for Magnet Therapy, Coghill teaches seminars and training courses on the use of magnets in healing.

Hmm, I take it that's a home study seminar, then?

From: http://www.detoxamin.com/health-news/slow_burn.html

When a DU shell is fired, it ignites upon impact. Uranium, plus traces of plutonium and americium, vaporize into tiny, ceramic particles of radioactive dust. Once inhaled, uranium oxides lodge in the body and emit radiation indefinitely. A single particle of DU lodged in a lymph node can devastate the entire immune system according to British radiation expert Roger Coghill.(7)