Bioelectromagnetics

To Soapy Sam: No we have done no direct work on fire wire or Bluetooth. I am wondering if the producers of these devices have either: if these products/systems were pharmaceuticals they would have had to go through a rigorous testing process before being released onto the public market, but there is a glaring lacuna in the pretesting regulations for telecoms and related devices.

Remember that the average radiated power density of a cellphone is twenty times that of a microwave oven at user distances. (So far as I know, the microwave oven is the only domestic electrical appliance tested for radiation).
 
cogreslab said:
Remember that the average radiated power density of a cellphone is twenty times that of a microwave oven at user distances. (So far as I know, the microwave oven is the only domestic electrical appliance tested for radiation).
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By this do you mean "Twenty times the amount of radiation that gets outside the microwave oven's casing", or "Twenty times the amount of radiation in the cooking chamber"?
 
To richardm: I said "at user distances", i.e. about 2 feet from a microwave oven, and about 2.5 cm from a mobile.

This is what the NGT say in the FAQ section of their website:

16. Are Electro Magnetic Fields harmful?
Major research programmes throughout the world have not shown any proven causal link between ill health and EMFs. Further details available here.

Well, well! Maybe they didn't read the literature?! More likely they are sophistrically using the word "proven" as a value judgement of their own making.
 
cogreslab said:
To richardm: I said "at user distances", i.e. about 2 feet from a microwave oven, and about 2.5 cm from a mobile.
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Okay, thanks for the clarification. A microwave oven has a faraday cage to contain the EMF energy. Emissions standards say that the max leakage of 5mW / cm<sup>2</sup> at a distance of 5cm (not 2 feet) from the oven. (Most new ovens achieve a leakage of just 0.2 mW/cm<sup>2</sup>). 20 times that standard level is still just 100 mW/cm<sup>2</sup>.

Surely it must be a negligible amount 2 feet away?
 
By the way Cleopatra: are these also extremists?

çáøú äçùîì ìéùøàì áåðä áùëåðåú äöôåðéåú áéøåùìéí ÷å îúç

çùîìé òéìé. àéùåø ìëê ðéúï ò"é òéøéú éøåùìéí åäîùøãéí äîîùìúééí äøìååðèééí ììà éãéòú 40 àìó äúåùáéí äâøéí áàæåø äöáú

÷ååé äçùîì úôâò áàåôï îäåúé á÷å äðåó ùì äùëåðä àê çîåø îëê ðâåø áàæåø äîééöø ùãåú çùîìééí åîâðèééí. îåîçéí îåáéìéí áðåùà ëîå ã"ø àìé øéëèø åôøåô' æàá ìá îäàåðéáøñéèä äòáøéú îöáéòéí òì ñëðä áøéàåúéú áøåøä ìúåùáéí, åáòé÷ø ìéìãéí äîúâåøøéí áñîåê ì÷ååéí àìå

àðà çåå ãòúëí áðåùà , ÷øàå àú çåîø äø÷ò åàú äî÷åøåú åçúîå áñôø äàåøçéí

àðå ðìçîéí îåì àéåí àôùøé ùì éìãéðå ìçìåú áñøèï. 1000 éìãéí çåìéí îãé ùðä áñøèï. àðà á÷øå æëøåï îðçí, àøâåï äòåùä øáåú .ìîòï äéìãéí àìå åîùôçåúéäí

When A child has cancer in Israel
 
I cannot read those characters, my pc displays them as Greek but they mean nothing as such. Are they Hebrew per chance? You can post the link instead of copying and pasting the text.
 
It's in Hebrew indeed. Well. Thank God my house is in East Jerusalem and not in the North... but still the East sector suffers from so many problems that installing powerlines wouldn't make any difference.

I don't know if they are extremists maybe they were scarred by a local Roger Coghill although having ecological concerns is a luxury for the people of Israel because they have to face other kinds of extremism.
 
I knew i had heard of Rob Lawless, he is in the UHW Path Labs. I never worked with him so he wouldn't know me, tho i do know some of the people at that Path Lab.

If i can find time i will read the references you have provided, but i would still be interested in hearing more about the purpose and direction of your research into the Quinones.

PJ
 
Coghill,

If you have anything else than indications, as in conclusive evidence, I really think you should take it to the court and don't hesitate in doing so. I'm not saying this to harass you, but this is an important issue for mankind if you're right.

If you have made analyses in several geographic areas with high levels of these phenomena you claim is a hazard for humans, then I can't help to think about a large number of other reasons that should also be taken in account: Food habits, general health care, genetic disposure etc., there could be a large number of reasons for these symptoms you have found, and I guess that's exactly the same thing they will tell you in court. So unless you have some lab studies on humans concerning this matter, which can be considered conclusive evidence, you don't really have a case. Your findings could actually be quite wrong, and the product of selective search.

I'm always very skeptic about conspiracy theories, because there are enough to go around and I've heard a lot of crap already that turned out to be wrong in the end. I'm even more skeptic when the person that claims the existence of the conspiracy, make a living out of that claim.

The short version: If you have anymore than indications, that could not have been the product of selective search, I think you should take it to the court right away, so you atleast try. Even if you're right and still lose the case, it's far better than having done nothing else but threatening infants to get attention, and claiming the existance of worldwide conspiracies without solid proof.
If you're right about your claims, and not just using a greyzone scientific area to earn a living by threatening and scaming people, then good luck Sir.
 
The trouble is, with use MW ovens don't stay new, and start to leak. My figures at 2 feet were about right for the average MW oven. It is important to realise that a cellphone has to get its signal to the nearest base station, maybe five km distant, rather than the few hundred feet for a cordless phone. It is thus the most radiative appliance ever invented, and what do we do? We hold it next to arguably that most sensitive of all body organs, the brain (unless one happens to read Sunday Sport, which favours a different part of the anatomy).
 
Moulder's question 4: (Powerlines and Cancer)

4. What is the difference between electromagnetic radiation and electromagnetic fields?

Moulder doesn’t give a very good answer here, which somewhat surprises me.

Quote:
"In general, electromagnetic sources produce both radiant energy (radiation) and non-radiant fields. Radiation travels away from its source, and continues to exist even if the source is turned off. In contrast, some electric and magnetic fields exist near an electromagnetic source that are not projected into space, and that cease to exist when the energy source is turned off".

I don’t think Moulder really means to say that a radio signal continues to exist after the power is collapsed, otherwise your radio programme would also continue after the transmitter stopped transmissions.

To achieve radiation the electromagnetic energy energy must form closed loops of flux which propagate away from the emitter at near light speeds (light is also electromagnetic energy). This is not likely at the extremely low frequencies, only at radio frequencies, and Moulder does not bring out this point. He does however make the important concession that the electric and magnetic components are unrelated because exposees are in the near field of the 5000,000 metres long wave seen at 60 Hz. He should therefore have little difficulty in accepting my point that, because of this, any studies of ELF magnetic fields can say nothing about ELF electric fields. A quick search on Google or PubMed will show you that the number of studies of the ELF electric component is only a fraction of the magnetic field studies, evidence of how little has been done in characterising biological effects of the electric component.

This is my point: the utilities have been ignoring, avoiding and denigrating research into the electric component research because they know full well that is where the trouble lies. Even Ben Greenebaum’s work at Wisconsin (Moulder’s own alma mater) reported that ELF electric fields lengthened the cell cycle in physarum, and disrupted ATP synthesis and respiration, exactly what I have myself claimed.
 
"I don’t think Moulder really means to say that a radio signal continues to exist after the power is collapsed, otherwise your radio programme would also continue after the transmitter stopped transmissions."

Radio programmes do. Just ask the good folks on Alpha Centaurii. I think he means the banal but obvious- that an EM wave continues to move away from the source at lightspeed, even after the source stops radiating. What relevance that has to humans not in outbound starships is moot.

I return to your earlier financial statement.

You said "The National Grid Transco plc in the UK (the supplier of electricity via the national electricity grid) keeps some 2000 million pounds in cash"

When I questioned this, you gave a list of director's salaries.

Now we probably agree on the obscenity of directorial salaries, particularly in companies which are losing shareholders' investments and axing employee pension funds, but this is not the case here and is not relevant to the question.

You stated that NGT kept 2 billion pounds in cash. I asked where you got that number and you dodged the question by changing the subject.
This is precisely what many posters here have objected to in your posts. Your prime case is interesting enough. You damage your credibility by using such tactics.

Either NGT does keep 2bn in cash or not. Which is it and where did you find this number?
 
cogreslab said:
I don’t think Moulder really means to say that a radio signal continues to exist after the power is collapsed, otherwise your radio programme would also continue after the transmitter stopped transmissions.
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One wonders how you believe those naval boys managed to use signal lights to transmit Morse code. Would you care to correct your statement, please?
 
Try # 2:

One wonders how you believe those naval boys managed to use signal lights to transmit Morse code. Would you care to correct your statement, please?
 
Cleopatra said:


:confused:
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He knows he's been caught yet again. Once without evidence for claims. And once for demonstrating an incredibly impoverished understanding of the basic physics closely coupled to his area of research interest.
 
The cash shown in the NGT group's 2002/2003 balance sheet shows cash and current (i.e. immedately liquidisable) investments of around £600 million on the single day of the balance sheet. The group's cash flow is given however at over £3 billion (this is the amount of cash flowing through the business during the year, and hence available for spending in whatsoever direction the directors may decide). Not many years before, (when I last looked) this cash figure was £2 billion, and will obviously vary from year to year.

Since the point I was trying to make was the comparison between the massive cash resources available to the group and the paltry amount (£0.3 million) they spend on health effects research, though I obviously got the figures for that day wrong, I consider that the latest figures still firmly make my point for me, and in any case we may well see a strengthening of cash resource in 2003/4, in view of the stock market's rise since the balance sheet date.
 
To BillHoyt: for the benefit of readers of this thread could we please know what are your qualifications in physics? And for my benefit and education please explain why and how Morse signals at visible light frequencies do not collapse immediately when the source is interrrupted? Such explanations would count more with me and others than animated gifs of cartoons.
 
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