Bioelectromagnetics

Friday night and I am off to the jazz club, but What do you want me to do first young Mayoress Cleopatra,
show the supporting evidence for our in-house products or deal with the Moulder files? I will first deal with Moulder, because Tez is now looking into the magnetic coasters, for which I am also grateful.

Reading list:

1. The Body Electric by Dr Robert Becker and Gary Selden, - William Morrow Pubs, 1985,. This sets out in detail the disgraceful saga of the US military's efforts to protect their high EMF PELs. Dont read the first 300 pages yet, but start on page 304 ("conflicting standards") to page 326.
 
cogreslab said:
It will take several months because there are a large number of conclusions on Moulder's sites which need to be addressed untangled and reappraised. Don't worry CFLarsen, once I embark on a project I see it through. You skeptics are performing a great job in presenting me with an intelligent if over-belligerent and overly rude platform to test and prove my scientific points, for which I will now use you to the fullest extent, and for whch I am grateful for the enormous time you are all putting into this: it is fast becoming the largest thread in the forums, or so it seems to me. Many thanks. guys!
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You seem to miss the important point Claus is making here. That you deign to publicy level the accusations without already having the evidence in hand, sir, speaks volumes. That you've done this repeatedly in a very short time on this forum speaks so loudly that we need cotton balls for our ears.
 
cogreslab said:
Friday night and I am off to the jazz club, but What do you want me to do first young Mayoress Cleopatra,
show the supporting evidence for our in-house products or deal with the Moulder files? I will first deal with Moulder, because Tez is now looking into the magnetic coasters, for which I am also grateful.
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What evidence sir. You have admitted that you haven't tested your products in vivo. Something that you don't state clearly in your site.

1. The Body Electric by Dr Robert Becker and Gary Selden, - William Morrow Pubs, 1985,. This sets out in detail the disgraceful saga of the US military's efforts to protect their high EMF PELs. Dont read the first 300 pages yet, but start on page 304 ("conflicting standards") to page 326.
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You know I don't really doubt that there is some dirt involved in those cases but we cannot prove it for now and you don't help much.

What happened with the PhoneDome peopleBTW. Will they correct their mistake?
 
cogreslab said:
It will take several months because there are a large number of conclusions on Moulder's sites which need to be addressed untangled and reappraised. Don't worry CFLarsen, once I embark on a project I see it through. You skeptics are performing a great job in presenting me with an intelligent if over-belligerent and overly rude platform to test and prove my scientific points, for which I will now use you to the fullest extent, and for whch I am grateful for the enormous time you are all putting into this: it is fast becoming the largest thread in the forums, or so it seems to me. Many thanks. guys!
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Words mean nothing here. Evidence means everything.

Let's see some evidence, Roger.
 
Cleopatra said:


Let me return to the necromancy site. This is not fun. It's a terribly immoral to sell hopes to people that they are in pain. It's terribly immoral to perform a cold reading and sell it as communication with the dead.
QUOTE]

Cleopatra

My god you are breathtakingly judgemental, opinionated and arrogant. You make statements which have absolutely no substance. What gives you the right to make such a viscious judgement about the service offered on this website. Have you spoken to people that have seen this lady?

I think that you like the sound of your own voice and you are the one that is terribly immoral and spew out a load of s----.
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Lorri said:


Cleopatra

My god you are breathtakingly judgemental, opinionated and arrogant. You make statements which have absolutely no substance. What gives you the right to make such a viscious judgement about the service offered on this website. Have you spoken to people that have seen this lady?

I think that you like the sound of your own voice and you are the one that is terribly immoral and spew out a load of s----.
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No, my dear, you are the arrogant one. Laying down the facts is easy here: there is no evidence for communication with any spirit world. There is no evidence for a spirit world. If you wish to believe in a spirit world despite a lack of evidence, it is your right to hold such an opinion. But if you claim communication between this fantasy world and our own, you are now on scientific turf, and must present evidence.

There is none, dearheart.

With no evidence that such communication is possible, with neither physics nor neurobiology to defend it, those who claim to be able to do this and who charge money to perform this "ability," are, ipso facto, frauds.

This is what Cleopatra is maintaining. This is her basis. Your basis is without any sound evidence, against all scientific knowledge. It is on the shakiest of epistemological grounds.

It is both the depth of ignorance and the height of arrogance for you to take your position.

Now, if you insist on defending your breathtakingly judgmental, opinionated and arrogant position, then distinguish yourself here by arguing it with solid, peer-reviewed evidence.
 
Lorri said:
My god you are breathtakingly judgemental, opinionated and arrogant. You make statements which have absolutely no substance. What gives you the right to make such a viscious judgement about the service offered on this website. Have you spoken to people that have seen this lady?
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My dear lady don't get upset and do not think that you are in the position to drag me to a flame war. Forget it. :)

Now. I am glad we agree on something. I am glad to hear that you consider necromancy a vicious thing. Attempting to contact the dead is called necromancy. Your friend who is a classicist can assure you for that.

I thought that you started a thread where you stated that you believe in necromancy but you don't wish to discuss about it, this is the reason why I didn't join the discussion if you have changed your mind I can join you there.

I think that you like the sound of your own voice and you are the one that is terribly immoral and spew out a load of s----.
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Let me repeat my dear lady that your insults are not able to replace your lack of arguments.

BTW are you the owner of the site in question?
 
Cleopatra said:



BTW are you the owner of the site in question?
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No but I would like to be. The lady seems to know a lot on her subject.

Cleopatra - do you know anyone that has used this ladies services???
 
Lorri said:
No but I would like to be. The lady seems to know a lot on her subject.
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I have never claimed that cold reading isn't an Art! If you check my posts about mediumship you will see that I think higly of cold reading.
Cleopatra - do you know anyone that has used this ladies services???
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I haven't tested Coghill's magnets on my broken back either what is your point?
 
Cleopatra said:
I have never claimed that cold reading isn't an Art! If you check my posts about mediumship you will see that I think higly of cold reading.
I haven't tested Coghill's magnets on my broken back either what is your point?
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Cleopatra

You are assuming that this lady does cold readings. How do you know if that is the way she works? You say she is selling hopes and talk about people being in pain. The inference is that the people go away from her in much the same state. Well from what I have read it does not seem to be so. Look at the guest book and read Roger Coghill's comments. Some one that will sit with someone for three hours or so for £25 and sometimes for no payment, seems to be providing an excellent service I would say. The people who have commented in her guest book disagree with what you ae saying and they are obviously the ones to judge - not you!
 
Lorri first of all I continue this discussion here only because the necromancy site appears in Coghill's site.

The amount of money she charges is irrelevant with our discussion.It it a matter of quantity? I don't know how much you know about mediumship but I happen to know a lot. The comments in the guest book doesn't say much because those who go there are ready to believe anything also she might have posted them there herself.

So I repeat. I haven't tested Roger's magnets. Should I have tested them in order to question their efficiency?

Are you ready to discuss about that , we can always move the discussion to your thread because we are talking about the politics of science here mostly.
 
Lorri said:


...snip...

Some one that will sit with someone for three hours or so for £25 and sometimes for no payment, seems to be providing an excellent service I would say. The people who have commented in her guest book disagree with what you ae saying and they are obviously the ones to judge - not you!
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Just an aside - £25 for three hours is still well above the national minimum wage in the UK (£4.50 an hour since October 2003).

I know many people who do volunteer work, "befriending" the elderly, meals-on-wheels and so on who do a lot of hours for absolutely nothing.

And as for a few readings for nothing - well that’s a good marketing exercise. Look how people seem to equate doing "some" readings for nothing means that she is somehow virtuous.

As for the people receiving being the only ones who can judge her value! Sheer nonsense- I can find testimonies of people who claimed to have been healed by Popoff, for psychic surgery for breatharians but they mean nothing in coming to a judgment on whether she can do what she says she can.
 
Cleopatra said:
Lorri first of all I continue this discussion here only because the necromancy site appears in Coghill's site.

The amount of money she charges is irrelevant with our discussion.It it a matter of quantity? I don't know how much you know about mediumship but I happen to know a lot. The comments in the guest book doesn't say much because those who go there are ready to believe anything also she might have posted them there herself.

So I repeat. I haven't tested Roger's magnets. Should I have tested them in order to question their efficiency?

Are you ready to discuss about that , we can always move the discussion to your thread because we are talking about the politics of science here mostly.
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Cleopatra - you have brought this subject into this thread - you, not me. Reading your comments, there you go again, making an ill founded judgement. You are the one that knows all about mediumship, these poor misguided people who write in the guest book are obviously weak minded etc., etc., (this is the inference that you have made).

What makes you such a blanket expert on this subject that you can dispense judgement on how the receivers of this service feel, and what type of people they are??
 
Darat said:


Just an aside - £25 for three hours is still well above the national minimum wage in the UK (£4.50 an hour since October 2003).

I know many people who do volunteer work, "befriending" the elderly, meals-on-wheels and so on who do a lot of hours for absolutely nothing.

And as for a few readings for nothing - well that’s a good marketing exercise. Look how people seem to equate doing "some" readings for nothing means that she is somehow virtuous.

As for the people receiving being the only ones who can judge her value! Sheer nonsense- I can find testimonies of people who claimed to have been healed by Popoff, for psychic surgery for breatharians but they mean nothing in coming to a judgment on whether she can do what she says she can.
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Another one talking a lot of twaddle!!!!
 
Lorri are you ready to discuss about necromancy? Are you ready to reply to our questions?

If you are not please stop derailing this thread.
 
Lorri said:


Cleopatra

You are assuming that this lady does cold readings. How do you know if that is the way she works? You say she is selling hopes and talk about people being in pain. The inference is that the people go away from her in much the same state. Well from what I have read it does not seem to be so. Look at the guest book and read Roger Coghill's comments. Some one that will sit with someone for three hours or so for £25 and sometimes for no payment, seems to be providing an excellent service I would say. The people who have commented in her guest book disagree with what you ae saying and they are obviously the ones to judge - not you!
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Lorri, it is so easy to get positive testimonials from people who want to believe that it isn't even worth thinking about.

Without exception, when put to the test, fraud is the only conclusion that can be drawn about these folks.

Also, an "edited" guest book is disingenuous at best. Additions are only added to the guest book after they have been screened by host. There could be hundreds of very unhappy responses for each positive note that is published online. We have no way of knowing.
 
Lorri said:


Another one talking a lot of twaddle!!!!
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Is it twaddle that £25 for 3 hours is well above the national minimum wage? (By the way on a 40 hr week for 48 weeks a year that gives her an annual income of £16,000.)

Is it twaddle that many people do lots of voluntary work for no payment at all?

Is it twaddle that the free readings have resulted in good marketing for her? (I submit you and Roger as people being impressed and drawing an unsupported conclusion from this fact as evidence.)

Is it twaddle that I can find testimonials for lots of whacky things?

Is it twaddle that testimonials on their own do not provide proof that she can do as she says she does?
 
Darat said:


Is it twaddle that £25 for 3 hours is well above the national minimum wage? (By the way on a 40 hr week for 48 weeks a year that gives her an annual income of £16,000.)

Is it twaddle that many people do lots of voluntary work for no payment at all?

Is it twaddle that the free readings have resulted in good marketing for her? (I submit you and Roger as people being impressed and drawing an unsupported conclusion from this fact as evidence.)

Is it twaddle that I can find testimonials for lots of whacky things?

Is it twaddle that testimonials on their own do not provide proof that she can do as she says she does?
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YES DARAT - IT IS TWADDLE - YOU TALK A LOAD OF TWADDLE!!!
 
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