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Automatic Drawing

opening new doors to our understanding of the universe that seems to be their plan (the rich and famous is so humans will listen) I did fill out the application had it notarized sent the letter from one of the psychiatrist witnessing my ability etc I received a email yesterday saying they never received my application I have replied back with the tracking # from fed Express mailed 05/05/07
 
Lance Katcher said:
opening new doors to our understanding of the universe that seems to be their plan (the rich and famous is so humans will listen) I did fill out the application had it notarized sent the letter from one of the psychiatrist witnessing my ability etc I received a email yesterday saying they never received my application I have replied back with the tracking # from fed Express mailed 05/05/07
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to be speaking with Federal Express and not JREF at the moment. A tracking number is not proof that the application was filled out or sent.
 
Lance, automatic writing and drawing are well known and they are not paranormal. They do not involve spirits. They do not qualify for the million dollar challenge.

If you are in fact drawing with the aid of spirits, that is potentially paranormal. You have to define something that you can do with the aid of the spirits.

Examples: You leave the room, the spirit is shown a card with a number between 1 and 10. You reenter the room and ask the spirit to draw the number you just saw.

If you can see a number in the details, then that qualifies. You simply would tell the testers what number the spirit has drawn.

The testers prepare a set of 10 drawings: a face, a car, a dog, etc. You are shown all ten drawings. One drawing is chosen at random--you are not shown which one. The spirit makes a copy of the chosen drawing. You pick which drawing you have copied.

Do you think you can do something like this? If not, I suggest you ask yourself why you think spirits are involved at all.
 
Lance Katcher said:
Hi Susan I am no artist I have no Idea what I 'm drawing the detail is the incredibly small face that that turn into the shapes on the paper like cloud watching.My hand sare moving so fast when I draw
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Please can you say what is actually paranormal about your claim.

You say you are not an artist. This is simply not true. You draw pictures, therefore you are an artist. Apparently you draw fairly good pictures fast. That just means you are a good artist. There is nothing paranormal about this. In addition, none of the suggestions so far on this thread would actually test for anything paranormal. Some people can draw fast. Some people can draw with their eyes closed. Some people say they are in a trance while drawing and aren't really sure what they are doing. None of this is in any way paranormal.

If you want to show that what you do is paranormal, you have to think of some way of actually testing something that would not be physically possible. It is no good you just claiming that you shouldn't be able to do something. The fact is that you can. What you have to prove is that you couldn't do it without spirits being involved. How do you plan to do this? How do you think you could test for the presence of spirits without the JREF having to take your word for it. Remember, a test must have obvious results that do not require any interpretation or judging.

Edit : Sorry, when I said none of the ideas so far tested for the paranormal I hadn't noticed the second page. Christine's idea would indeed be a valid test. Please, rather than just saying you draw pictures, tell us what you can do that is actually paranormal. Would Christine's idea work for you? Or can the spirits only see what you can see?
 
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Lance Katcher said:
now a simple test someone could draw a shape and we can fill it in without looking and not go outside the lines
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Sounds like that would work, especially if you never saw the shape (were blindfolded before it was set in front of you) or never saw how it was aligned (it was moved after you were blindfolded). That would eliminate the very difficult but theoretically possible ability to memorize the shape in comparison to where your hand was, before being blindfolded.

Also, there would need to be no indentation on the paper from when the outline of the shape was drawn, so there would be no way to feel when your writing instrument reached the edge, no matter how subtle. Maybe a photocopy of the shape, rather than one drawn by hand with pressure from a pen or pencil.

Obviously, the blindfold would need to be peek-proof.

Also, we need to define "outside the lines" and "fill it in." Not sure how to do that. I mean, we all know it when we see it, but for it not to be subjective... Would one 1/8" mark outside the lines be a failure even if the entire shape was otherwise perfectly filled in? Would a 1/8"-square white space inside the lines be a failure? If the spirits are allowed a bit of white space inside the lines to insure no stray lines go outside, how much? Would being too cautious and making a single dot inside the shape be a failure? How much white space inside the lines would be allowed?

What other issues can we think of?
 
Hi I have just been talking with Mr Randi himself


Where are you located? We can test this in a few minutes …
James Randi.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lance Katcher [mailto:lancekatcher@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:47 PM
To: James Randi
Subject: RE: automatic Drawing



Hi Mr Randi

.OK I have seen 3 psychiatrists their diagnosis was automatic drawing I never heard the term before and they never wittnessed it before to watch us draw is amazing. now a simple test someone could draw a shape and we can fill it in without looking and not go outside the lines I recived a email sayng they never recieved my application I have replied back with the tracking # from fed Express sent on 05/05/07 I watch my hands do the drawing it is very paranormal and I talk with them

James Randi <randi@randi.org> wrote:

This may be news to you, but Lance Katcher is NOT the only person we’re hearing from! So we didn’t drop everything to respond to you…! And making drawings is something ANYONE can do – it’s NOT paranormal.

James Randi.
 
Schizophrenic perhaps, my sympathies I hope your delusions clear up in short measure. :(
 
Solus said:
Schizophrenic perhaps, my sympathies I hope your delusions clear up in short measure. :(
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Agreed. It seems like it's getting stalker like.

I have yet to see anything except "abstract" art that is as good as a paint by numbers book.

The JR response sounds about right. It's art, nothing paranormal about that.
 
OK, drawing without going outside the boundaries without looking. Sounds like something testable. Have you tried to contact a skeptic group in your area to help you design and run an experiment? You are one test away from glory and fame. (ETA: or if glory and fame aren't your thing, one test away from anonymously opening new doors to our understanding of the universe.)
I think I have contacted every skeptic group, magazine etc with no response that is why I joined this forum thanks to all for your help so far
 
Lance, you can test drawing outside the boundaries yourself fairly easily. If you want advice, say so, and we will give you some. It is not as easy as it sounds as there are lots of little things that can go wrong.
 
Thank you all so much Mr Randi has agreed to send a representative to test me
Wow yes agreed thank you so much and don't plan on going home to soon

Lance Katcher

James Randi <randi@randi.org> wrote:
Okay, let’s save ourselves a lot of trouble and time. We’ll find a representative in the area who will test you to fill in a drawing. That should take about a half-hour, you’ll fail, and we can all go home.

Agreed?

James Randi.
 
Lance Katcher said:
Thank you all so much Mr Randi has agreed to send a representative to test me
Wow yes agreed thank you so much and don't plan on going home to soon

Lance Katcher

James Randi <randi@randi.org> wrote:
Okay, let’s save ourselves a lot of trouble and time. We’ll find a representative in the area who will test you to fill in a drawing. That should take about a half-hour, you’ll fail, and we can all go home.

Agreed?

James Randi.
Click to expand...

Wow, this is getting awesome. If that's a real response from him than I'm laughing my ass off.

Bill gates emailed me back today as well about my Microsoft questions.

Bill Gates <bgates@microsoft.com> wrote:
Hi Kilnado,

In regards to your question of our products sucking, why yes they do! I love that you hate our products! Call me up sometime and we can have dinner, or you can just punch my face!

Agreed?

Bill Gates.
 
No really really true


Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Lance Katcher" <lancekatcher@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: RE: automatic Drawing
To: "James Randi" <randi@randi.org>
Wow yes agreed thank you so much and don't plan on going home to soon

Lance Katcher

James Randi <randi@randi.org> wrote:
Okay, let’s save ourselves a lot of trouble and time. We’ll find a representative in the area who will test you to fill in a drawing. That should take about a half-hour, you’ll fail, and we can all go home.

Agreed?

James Randi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lance Katcher [mailto:lancekatcher@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:58 PM
To: James Randi
Subject: RE: automatic Drawing

Los Gatos California

James Randi <randi@randi.org> wrote:
Where are you located? We can test this in a few minutes …

James Randi.
 
If it's true we should be able to get confirmation soon enough. This is the James Randi Education Foundation's bulletin board after all.
 
I was thinking this morning about this and a few artist's games came to mind.

One is from "Drawing on the Left Side of the Brain". It is a game where you draw something, usually a still life or a model, without ever looking at the paper and without ever lifting your pen from the paper. This tends to produce slightly mishapen drawings even by very talented artists.

The other game I believe was invented by Picaso and his friends. Esentaly you fold a peice of paper so that at any time you can only see one square. Then you draw part of something on that square and let the lines at the edge continue into the next square. The paper is refolded so that only the edge lines can be seen and second artist is handed the paper to continue the drawing. (Whew, this is hard to explain without being able to show someone)

Modified versions of either of those games could be useful in a test of this sort of "automatic drawing" since they rely on the artist themselves not actually seeing what they are working on.
 
Lance Katcher said:
OK I have seen 3 psychiatrists their diagnosis was automatic drawing I never heard the term before and they never wittnessed it before to watch us draw is amazing.
Click to expand...

I believe this claim as much as I believe the claim that you filled in an application and never got any response before yesterday.

I'm pretty sure there is no such diagnosis as "automatic drawing" in the DSM-IV.

Visiting three psychiatrists must be expensive. I'm curious, is the diagnosis "automatic drawing" covered by your insurance?
 
You guys are far more generous than I would have been. I can't get more than 20 word into this guy's posts without my head spinning. Crimmeny, Lance! Basic punctuation is not that difficult.
 
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