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Audiophilia - From skeptic to believer

For audio frequencies, inductance and capacitance in wire for speakers means almost nothing. If you can hear a .1db loss at 20khz for a 10 foot run, you’re not human.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
For audio frequencies, inductance and capacitance in wire for speakers means almost nothing. If you can hear a .1db loss at 20khz for a 10 foot run, you’re not human.

Paul

:) :) :)
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I'm actually right though. When I wrote change in voltage I actually meant the phase angle/velocity of a wave. Anyone can hear that distortion and the factor also relies on on the Inductance and the Capacitance of the wire. Technically speaking though to determine the attenuation constant you need to determine the Resistance, Inductance, Capacitance, and the Transconductance.
 
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technoextreme said:
I'm actually right though. When I wrote change in voltage I actually meant the phase angle/velocity of a wave. That anyone can hear.
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No.

The human ear is bad at hearing phase shift to begin with at low frequencies, so phase shift means almost nothing at high frequencies, and the phase from wire is almost nothing even at 20 KHz anyway. Also the loudspeakers shift the phase much more then any wire could, because of the crossover network.

Don't buy into the wire woo-woo.

Paul

:) :) :)

I am a Ham Radio operator, and have a radio in the 450mhz range, if wire cause problems at audio frequencies like the snake oil sellers say, I would be all over the spectrum and not be able to use my radio.
 
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I am a Ham Radio operator, and have a radio in the 450mhz range, if wire cause problems at audio frequencies like the snake oil sellers say, I would be all over the spectrum and not be able to use my radio. .
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The reason why you have no problems is because no one builds cables that intruduce distortions. It's just idiotic and quite frankly I've never heard of it before. Unless you can show me a cable where there is an imaginary component to the resistance you don't have any cable that distorts the frequency. Which brings me back to the original point. Unfortunatly, reading the first website I searched about audio cables leaves me confused.
 
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technoextreme said:
It's just too needlessly complex for me to go through all that design for something that isn't eve necessary. Then again judging from his other post about a power cord.
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There is nothing to design when it comes to wire. Good gauge wire for the speakers with good ends (gold because it does not corrode) are all that is needed. Power cords are BS too, just so much woo-woo for people haven't who haven't got a clue. Just well make cables are all that is needed, nothing expensive.

Like I said before, if the people who sell snake oil cables where right about the BS that they sell, radios would not work.

Paul

:):):)
 
the output impedance of a tube amp is low, and speakers can dip to 3 ohms, and this is what can cause "issues." fortunately you don't have 5+ dB TL loss as is typical with cheap ham installations.

and radio is not somehow limited to the range above 20 khz. there have been plenty of stations which transmitted in the AF range.

the JAES is not woo, it's the primary journal in the audio world.
 
illogical said:
the output impedance of a tube amp is low, and speakers can dip to 3 ohms, and this is what can cause "issues." fortunately you don't have 5+ dB TL loss as is typical with cheap ham installations.

and radio is not somehow limited to the range above 20 khz. there have been plenty of stations which transmitted in the AF range.

the JAES is not woo, it's the primary journal in the audio world.
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Cheap ham, I guess you think it has something to do with CB radio.

Tell me where are the problems with audio and wire.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
technoextreme said:
The reason why you have no problems is because no one builds cables that intruduce distortions. It's just idiotic and quite frankly I've never heard of it before.
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Ack, I see you haven't yet been properly introduced to the audiophile universe where such things do indeed exist.
 
illogical said:
the output impedance of a tube amp is low, and speakers can dip to 3 ohms, and this is what can cause "issues." fortunately you don't have 5+ dB TL loss as is typical with cheap ham installations.

and radio is not somehow limited to the range above 20 khz. there have been plenty of stations which transmitted in the AF range.

the JAES is not woo, it's the primary journal in the audio world.
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Forgive me but you don't have to match impedance at least from my rudimentary understanding. It's just not a high enough frequency to matter unless your stringing out 9 miles of audio cable. The rule of thumb being that if (length/wavelength of signal)>.01 you have to do all the above stuff. My calculations assume that the signal is traveling at the speed of light.
Tell me where are the problems with audio and wire.
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Just as a side note this discussion only applies to audio cables. Telephone cables defiantly have problems with the phenomenon because of the lengths involved.
 
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technoextreme said:
That's wrong. Audio cables do have an important effect on how the music sounds. It's the influence of electromagnetics and audio cables fall under transmission line theory. If a wire is considered a transmission line you can no longer use traditional circuit theory of assuming that the voltage of a wire is constant. The voltage changes in respect to the position of a wire. [Heaviside condition to be continued]
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How long does a piece of wire have to be for you to consider it a transmission line ?
 
technoextreme said:
Just as a side note this discussion only applies to audio cables. Telephone cables defiantly have problems with the phenomenon because of the lengths involved.
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This is true, and wire used for speakers comes, as you know, nowhere near the length needed even for 20 kHz.
A common rule of thumb (justified in the input impedance section) is that the cable or wire should be treated as a transmission line if the length is greater than 1/100 of the wavelength.
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That length would be about 500 feet for 20 kHz, and even with a slow velocity factor of 60%, that length would be 300 feet.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Don't give him any ideas, Paul, or we'll be seeing "Swedish man dies after 1000ft reel of cable falls on him" in the news.
 
jsiv said:
Don't give him any ideas, Paul, or we'll be seeing "Swedish man dies after 1000ft reel of cable falls on him" in the news.
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Well I think that a lot of this wouldn't get under my skin, if my only audio friend didn't buy into so much of the wire and cable woo-woo. He changes wire and therefore thinks that he must hear a difference, after all, he is an audiophile. And even if he does know that people lie all the time about their products, audiophile people never would.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Audiophile? HA!

:jaw-droppThis would be hilarious, if not for the fact that this guy thinks he's serious. It's thanks to people like him and Fremer that I refuse to apply the "audiophile" label to myself.
 
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