Reminder: Test already offerred
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2027985#post2027985
In post #85. we've already offerred such a test. You've been silent about the offer. I wonder whether you're serious.
Questioningly,
Gulliver
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2027985#post2027985
In post #85. we've already offerred such a test. You've been silent about the offer. I wonder whether you're serious.
Questioningly,
Gulliver
Isn't that the point of the MDC? To either shut people up, or show them to be deluded?
Not at all, and you show a grievous ignorance of JREF's aims when you say that.
It's a challenge which exists to ask people to demonstrate claimed paranormal feats. It's not simple about getting them to "shut.. up" or to "show them to be deluded". which is to pose a false dichotomy.
It's simply a way to persuade people to put their money where their mouth is, which is the challenge to Rando on which the MDC was originally vased.
Any response to Gulliver's post, Dargo?
Next Step
With today's holiday here in the States, I can't respond fully for about a day. I'll sit down with a couple of undergraduate students around 8:30 A. M. EST (same time zone at the JREF server) on Tuesday morning, January 2, 2007, to write up the protocol more formally. We'll need from you, by private message is fine, the two city centers, or business districts, closest to you and your partner. Please also plan on traveling to these places for the test in the next few days.
Interested,
Gulliver
Very good.
With today's holiday here in the States, I can't respond fully for about a day. I'll sit down with a couple of undergraduate students around 8:30 A. M. EST (same time zone at the JREF server) on Tuesday morning, January 2, 2007, to write up the protocol more formally. We'll need from you, by private message is fine, the two city centers, or business districts, closest to you and your partner. Please also plan on traveling to these places for the test in the next few days.
Interested,
Gulliver
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 36,374
Hey, there he is again!
I'm happy to wait for AS to do their stuff, they have much better resources in Oz than we do.
I just can't wait!
You do realise that when you fail (as you will in the extremely unlikely event that you turn up for a test) we are going to take you to pieces very publicly?
On the other hand, if you manage what you say, you'll be a filthy rich international megastar!
Formal Protocol for Gulliver Test
Let's agree to
-Simple controls.
-Clear results.
-Very limited expenses.
Here's the concept. I'll produce a numbered list of 10 simple words. These words will be in common usage. I will cull the words carefully to prevent confusion. Words that have one or more homonyms (for example, “eye” and "I") will not be used. Words whose pronunciations vary such as "aluminum" will not be used.
Both Dargo and his friend will travel to a designated location at an appointed time for a thirty-minute test. The locations will be sent by JREF Forum private message from Gulliver at least twelve hours in advance. The locations will be in the business districts requested by Dargo and at least eight kilometers apart. Dargo must provide the business district by January 4, 2007 11 P. M., JREF server time, EST. Dargo must provide several reasonable dates and times during the business day for availability for testing as well with the business districts.
Gulliver will provide Dargo with as many possible times for testing as the volunteers in Western Australia can reasonably provide. Dargo and Gulliver will mutually agree to one time.
At the agreed time, both Dargo and his friend will arrive at the assigned locations. They should be punctual and cooperative. Neither should bring any personal effects to the testing location. If the receiver requires reading glasses pen, and paper, they will be provided. (Dargo, please indicate strength of required glasses.) We agree that if either present with any personal effect, especially electronic devices, the test will be considered a negative result.
Shortly after the agreed time, I’ll call both of you on separate lines. I’ll ask each of you permission to record the calls. I’ll then ask both of you a couple of questions, including verifying that you believe that your special communications are currently working. I’ll the receiving person’s line on hold and read the list one word at a time, one every 10 seconds. I’ll ask the transmitting person to read back the list. If correct, then the test will proceed. If incorrect, the test restarts with a new list. (I’ll have ten lists at hand at the start of the call.) Next, I will place the transmitter’s line on mute and pick up the receiver’s line from hold. I will tell the receiver that I’m ready to hear the list. If I hear the same ten words in the correct order within two minutes, the test will be considered successful.
The transmitter will not speak or write during the test and hold the phone receiver to his or her ear. At the beginning of the test, Dargo must indicate whether he or his friend will be transmitting.
We agree that both Dargo and his friend may be observed by third-parties designated by Gulliver throughout the test. We agree that any unusual activity including chewing gum, tapping toes, or fidgeting will also constitute a negative test.
Let’s agree that any of the following conditions constitute a failure: failure to answer the call, unexplained disconnections, failure to respond, and unintelligible responses.
I also will post the recorded audio here.
Gulliver offers a monetary award of US$100 through Paypal to Dargo for a successful test.
Here is the formal protocol for the Gulliver Test, improved slightly from the previous post. Dargo, please review and agree.
Let's agree to
-Simple controls.
-Clear results.
-Very limited expenses.
Here's the concept. I'll produce a numbered list of 10 simple words. These words will be in common usage. I will cull the words carefully to prevent confusion. Words that have one or more homonyms (for example, “eye” and "I") will not be used. Words whose pronunciations vary such as "aluminum" will not be used.
Both Dargo and his friend will travel to a designated location at an appointed time for a thirty-minute test. The locations will be sent by JREF Forum private message from Gulliver at least twelve hours in advance. The locations will be in the business districts requested by Dargo and at least eight kilometers apart. Dargo must provide the business district by January 4, 2007 11 P. M., JREF server time, EST. Dargo must provide several reasonable dates and times during the business day for availability for testing as well with the business districts.
Gulliver will provide Dargo with as many possible times for testing as the volunteers in Western Australia can reasonably provide. Dargo and Gulliver will mutually agree to one time.
At the agreed time, both Dargo and his friend will arrive at the assigned locations. They should be punctual and cooperative. Neither should bring any personal effects to the testing location. If the receiver requires reading glasses pen, and paper, they will be provided. (Dargo, please indicate strength of required glasses.) We agree that if either present with any personal effect, especially electronic devices, the test will be considered a negative result.
Shortly after the agreed time, I’ll call both of you on separate lines. I’ll ask each of you permission to record the calls. I’ll then ask both of you a couple of questions, including verifying that you believe that your special communications are currently working. I’ll the receiving person’s line on hold and read the list one word at a time, one every 10 seconds. I’ll ask the transmitting person to read back the list. If correct, then the test will proceed. If incorrect, the test restarts with a new list. (I’ll have ten lists at hand at the start of the call.) Next, I will place the transmitter’s line on mute and pick up the receiver’s line from hold. I will tell the receiver that I’m ready to hear the list. If I hear the same ten words in the correct order within two minutes, the test will be considered successful.
The transmitter will not speak or write during the test and hold the phone receiver to his or her ear. At the beginning of the test, Dargo must indicate whether he or his friend will be transmitting.
We agree that both Dargo and his friend may be observed by third-parties designated by Gulliver throughout the test. We agree that any unusual activity including chewing gum, tapping toes, or fidgeting will also constitute a negative test.
Let’s agree that any of the following conditions constitute a failure: failure to answer the call, unexplained disconnections, failure to respond, and unintelligible responses.
I also will post the recorded audio here.
Gulliver offers a monetary award of US$100 through Paypal to Dargo for a successful test.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
One critical question. Have you had any contact with Dargo's friend?
Critical Question
No. I have not corresponded with Dargo's friend. Is there a concern you have about this? As far as I'm concerned, it's up to Dargo to get his friend to the test. Any failure on this point would be considered a negative result.
Thankfully,
Gulliver
No. I have not corresponded with Dargo's friend. Is there a concern you have about this? As far as I'm concerned, it's up to Dargo to get his friend to the test. Any failure on this point would be considered a negative result.
Thankfully,
Gulliver
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
I agree with your above post. However I am a bit worried she exists only in Dargo's mind. If so you are going to a lot of trouble for nothing. And you have not proved anything. If you contact her, confirm everything with her (she has this ability and will turn up for the test) then I think you need to take this very seriously. Might as well just hand over the money.
Update
Quietly,
Gulliver
Just to keep everyone up to date, I've not received the required locations from Dargo yet. It's been more than 24 hours since I made the request. Let's hope that we don't need to borrow Sylvia's crickets.
Quietly,
Gulliver
I applaud your initiative and your test proposal, Gulliver. Soon we will see what Dargo's claim is made of.
We have enough evidence already to determine Dargo is not negotiating in good faith: The withheld affidavit being the centerpiece.
Hopefully, enough fence sitters will watch this show.
We'd very much like productive input from posters who haven't already posted in this thread.
We have enough evidence already to determine Dargo is not negotiating in good faith: The withheld affidavit being the centerpiece.
Hopefully, enough fence sitters will watch this show.
We'd very much like productive input from posters who haven't already posted in this thread.
Ryan O'Dine
OD’ing on Damitol
Hope this qualifies:
I realize this isn’t the JREF test, but the MDC has the great provision of holding a pretest without controls to affirm the ability under protocol conditions. I didn't notice that in Gulliver's post.
I’d suggest a list of ten “practice” words that everyone hears, getting the two parties to formally confirm they’re successfully shamathying before the first controlled tests are run.
Oh, and good luck, Dargo!
CynicalSkeptic
Master Poster
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 2,608
What fun is that? Ridicule and derision are much more enjoyable.
Actually, I would love to see a video of such a test.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Come, come, this is Dargo's fantasy. Nothing more. And you are taking it seriously?
If he was taking it seriously then everything would happen a lot quicker.
Another Update
He has a little over 24 hours to respond, or I will declare that he has failed the Gulliver test.
I've placed an order with the local virtual insect supplier so that Dargo can have his own set of crickets. They're start chirping at 11PM EST Thursday.
Determinedly,
Gulliver
Continuing to update the Forum members, I pass along the disappointing news that Dargo has failed to respond within 48 hours--despite his claim that they are "waiting".
He has a little over 24 hours to respond, or I will declare that he has failed the Gulliver test.
I've placed an order with the local virtual insect supplier so that Dargo can have his own set of crickets. They're start chirping at 11PM EST Thursday.
Determinedly,
Gulliver
Conjecture.
The evidence: Dargo continues to provide nothing substantial to back up his claim.