• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Anthrax Case Solved?

Yes, I'm suggesting Saddam could have made this anthrax.

Interesting. Why would Saddam choose to target news agencies and two democratic senators, as opposed to say, the president or his father? Most terrorism has some sort of objective or point beyond just scaring people, and I fail to see how Saddam's goals, twisted as they are, mesh with the choice of targets or delivery.
 
Interesting. Why would Saddam choose to target news agencies and two democratic senators, as opposed to say, the president or his father?.

Who said Saddam got to choose the targets? I merely suggested he may have supplied the anthrax.
 
Last edited:
Dr David Kay has little credibility on the anthrax case or Saddam's alleged WMD's. Kay once declared a piece of equipment found in the desert of Iraq to be a mobile weapons lab. It turned out to be equipment to launce weather balloons.
 
Who said Saddam got to choose the targets? I merely suggested he may have supplied the anthrax.

I find that incredibly odd. Why would Saddam supply a terrorist with a small amount of anthrax without some idea as to how the weapon would be targeted?
 
I find that incredibly odd. Why would Saddam supply a terrorist with a small amount of anthrax without some idea as to how the weapon would be targeted?

A terrorist allegedly tied to an organization he ran out of his country previously, to boot.

I'm still unconvinced at the case against Ivins, but instead of looking like some kind of devious plot to frame someone it instead seems like more of the same overzealousness that plagued Hatfill.

What strengthens my doubt is the number of Ivins' contemporaries who are coming forward stating that there are serious flaws in tracing the anthrax from the actual lab to their eventual destinations. There are lots of implications and suspicions on how someone might have done it, but no actual evidence that Ivins did.

Essentially, this case has a distinct difference from truther arguments in that a notable number in the scientific community are actually expressing disbelief that the case is convincing. CTists can glom onto that all they want, but the reality is that this is a case where actual credible and relevant opinions on the matter are being voiced, and not in a haphazard and scatter-brained manner.
 
Helping fan the conspiracy flame: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ew-science-fbi-anthrax-probe/?test=latestnews

some point from the article:
Despite the FBI's conclusion that an Army scientist sent anthrax letters sent to Congress and the media in the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, a new report casts doubt on the bureau's findings.

After a lengthy review, the National Research Council said the source of the anthrax powder could not be definitively identified.

While evidence supports the FBI's contention that it came from Ft. Detrick, a U.S. Army installation outside Frederick, Md., a report by the NRC released Tuesday found that based on the science alone, no conclusion could be reached.

The report is a significant blow to the FBI's long-standing case against Army scientist Bruce Ivins, who died of a suspicious Tylenol overdose in 2008. The FBI claims Ivins acted alone when he allegedly mailed the anthrax spores to members of Congress and the media in the weeks after the Sept. 11 , 2001, terror attacks. Five people died as a result of the anthrax mailings.

then a buncha sciency stuff I don't understand.
 
You could make it a conspiracy theory. Ivins was a convenient scapegoat to blame to cover up what really happened, and then he was murdered in a way that looked like the suicide of a guilty person to make sure he couldn't refute the charges.

I've not read a great deal about this, but so far I'm not buying the conspiracy theory. Sometimes two and two do make four.

Rolfe.
 
I can already see the fault lines forming, especially over the supercoatings and the FBI not being able to recreate the anthrax etc. When you get a rumor hungry media and on top of this you have an administration surrounded by pundits pushing for war you are going to get all sorts of spurrious and anecdotal data that wont fit the final answer. We can all expect the loons to hastily latch onto these inconsistencies instead of choosing to live in a world of uncertainty and doubt.

boloboffin, thanks for presenting evidence in such a clear-headed and reasonable manner. It is enlightening to say the least, and exactly what this forum is about.

I don't have a firm opinion about this case, but failure to recreate something is not necessarily strong evidence that it couldn't have been done. There might be a simple trick that the FBI missed, or the suspect could have put together some specialised bit of home equipment and then disposed of it. "I tried and I couldn't do it" is some evidence that it couldn't have been done, but not conclusive evidence.

Similarly the fact that they can't clearly trace exactly how Ivins put the anthrax into the mail system, if indeed he did so, isn't evidence that he didn't.

Is there a clear alternative suspect or hypothesis? If the best alternative hypothesis is "the Gummint did it to spread terror!" then Ivins looks pretty good by comparison. That isn't to say he definitely did it, but barring a better hypothesis he should remain a rationalist's favourite suspect.
 

That article states "the committee and FBI agree that there is no evidence that the silicon had been added as a dispersant to "weaponize" the anthrax". But has the FBI or panel offered anything other than handwaving to explain the high concentration of silicon in the anthrax? Previously, it was claimed it was the result of natural processes, without providing anything to back that claim up. But when the FBI specifically conducted tests to see if they could naturally induce those levels of silicon in anthrax, they failed. So has anything changed, or is handwaving still the order of the day?

Also, the FBI previously stated they spent 12 and 18 months trying to reverse engineer the anthrax in the letters sent to Daschle and Leahy without success. So, again, has the panel something new to explain how a lone scientist managed to do it as claimed by the FBI? Just curious.

Also, the FBI has never explained how Ivins managed to get the anthrax into letters and mail them without getting any trace on himself, his car or his house? Has the panel offered something to explain this? No? And isn't it odd that the FBI still can't find anything to place Ivins in Florida or New Jersey where the anthrax letters were mailed?

Isn't it interesting that Ivin's colleagues at USAMRIID said the equipment available to him was insufficient to manufacture, purify and dry the spore on the scale required? Did the panel offer anything to explain how he did this given that fact? No?

And finally, did the panel have anything to say about the amazing coincidence of the 9/11 hijackers residing only a few miles from where the first case of anthrax turned up? Hmmmmmm? :D
 
Is there a clear alternative suspect or hypothesis?

Yes, the 9/11 hijackers.

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/anthraxhijackerslink.html

Source: New York Times, March 23, 2002, Report Linking Anthrax and Hijackers Is Investigated, By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID JOHNSTON, The two men identified themselves as pilots when they came to the emergency room of Holy Cross Hospital in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., last June. One had an ugly, dark lesion on his leg that he said he developed after bumping into a suitcase two months earlier. Dr. Christos Tsonas thought the injury was curious, but he cleaned it, prescribed an antibiotic for infection and sent the men away with hardly another thought. But after Sept. 11, when federal investigators found the medicine among the possessions of one of the hijackers, Ahmed Alhaznawi, Dr. Tsonas reviewed the case and arrived at a new diagnosis. The lesion, he said in an interview this week, "was consistent with cutaneous anthrax. ... snip ... a recent memorandum, prepared by experts at the Johns Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies, and circulated among top government officials, has renewed a debate about the evidence. The group, which interviewed Dr. Tsonas, concluded that the diagnosis of cutaneous anthrax, which causes skin lesions, was "the most probable and coherent interpretation of the data available." The memorandum added, "Such a conclusion of course raises the possibility that the hijackers were handling anthrax and were the perpetrators of the anthrax letter attacks."

http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/wp0328.html

Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, March 29, 2002

In January, outside of formal channels, an FBI official asked biodefense experts at Johns Hopkins University to examine a curious lead in the federal government's investigation into last fall's anthrax attacks.

The experts were to evaluate the diagnosis of a Fort Lauderdale, Fla., emergency room physician who had treated one of the Sept. 11 hijackers last June. The physician, Christos Tsonas, initially thought the man had a minor infection, but after the wave of bioterrorist attacks he told the FBI that, in retrospect, he now believed the black lesion on the suspected hijacker's lower left leg was consistent with the skin form of anthrax.

… snip ...

O'Toole and Inglesby, who head the Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies, concluded that Tsonas's diagnosis of cutaneous anthrax was "the most probable and coherent interpretation of the data available." Since the contents of the memo became public last week, that conclusion has been endorsed by D.A. Henderson, the top bioterrorism official at the Department of Health and Human Services, and Richard Spertzel, who presided over the inspection of Iraq's bioweapons program as part of a United Nations team.
 
That article states "the committee and FBI agree that there is no evidence that the silicon had been added as a dispersant to "weaponize" the anthrax". But has the FBI or panel offered anything other than handwaving to explain the high concentration of silicon in the anthrax? Previously, it was claimed it was the result of natural processes, without providing anything to back that claim up. But when the FBI specifically conducted tests to see if they could naturally induce those levels of silicon in anthrax, they failed. So has anything changed, or is handwaving still the order of the day?

Also, the FBI previously stated they spent 12 and 18 months trying to reverse engineer the anthrax in the letters sent to Daschle and Leahy without success. So, again, has the panel something new to explain how a lone scientist managed to do it as claimed by the FBI? Just curious.

Also, the FBI has never explained how Ivins managed to get the anthrax into letters and mail them without getting any trace on himself, his car or his house? Has the panel offered something to explain this? No? And isn't it odd that the FBI still can't find anything to place Ivins in Florida or New Jersey where the anthrax letters were mailed?

Isn't it interesting that Ivin's colleagues at USAMRIID said the equipment available to him was insufficient to manufacture, purify and dry the spore on the scale required? Did the panel offer anything to explain how he did this given that fact? No?

And finally, did the panel have anything to say about the amazing coincidence of the 9/11 hijackers residing only a few miles from where the first case of anthrax turned up? Hmmmmmm? :D

On the other hand according to the link you provided to the UCLA, they also failed to find any trace of anthrax in the 9/11 attackers' stuff, any way to place them in the place the letters were mailed or any evidence they could make or had received weaponised anthrax.

Did Al Qaeda ever take responsibility for the anthrax attacks? As far as I can tell they did not, and you'd expect them to if it was their work.

Also there's weak but significant evidence that Ivins was obstructing the investigation and not in a stable mental state.

Overall it's a murky picture but Ivins still looks to me like the best candidate for the anthrax letters. Quite possibly the 9/11 conspirators messed about with anthrax too - it's not like any physical law says that there is only enough anthrax in the world for the 9/11 conspirators to have some or Ivins to have some but not both.
 
On the other hand according to the link you provided to the UCLA, they also failed to find any trace of anthrax in the 9/11 attackers' stuff

First of all, is the FBI telling the truth in saying they searched and found nothing in hijacker possessions related to anthrax? This is a concern because the issue here is whether the FBI is being honest with us. Is it valid to use an unsubstantiated claim by an agency whose veracity is in question to prove it's not? As history shows, the government and FBI are not above lying to make it look like they did a better job than they did or to manage public opinion in cases where certain disclosures might force actions that the government doesn't want to do (i.e., if there was reason to believe that Iraq was involved in the anthrax attack, the US was not ready to deal with Iraq and might have made it policy to cover up such connections).

Seriously, how much faith should we put in what is coming out the government about threats of this sort? Just the other day the assistant port director in San Diego and an officer with Customs and Border Protection, told a San Diego ABC News crew that authorities in the past had intercepted a nuclear weapon or other weapons of "mass effect" being smuggled into the US. The video clearly shows the public affairs officer in the background frantically trying to keep control of the interview and after failing simply stopping the interview: http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february142011/nukes-found-ta.php . We are not told everything, K_L.

Second, even if the FBI did check known hijacker locations and effects, we can't be certain that those were the only places the hijackers resided. We can't be sure that anthrax would have been transported from those locations to the locations that were known. We know that there were others involved in the 9/11 plot in the US, who are still not in custody. Therefore, we probably don't know all the places they resided. Nor is there a guarantee that even at the places we know they resided the FBI would have found anthrax had it been stored there at some point.

, any way to place them in the place the letters were mailed or any evidence they could make or had received weaponised anthrax.

You are wrong. We know that there were al-Qaeda members in New Jersey where at least some of the letters were mailed. In fact, some of the hijackers lived in New Jersey. For example, Hani Hanjour and Salem Alhazmi rented a one-room apartment in Paterson, New Jersey. Nawaf Alhazmi, Saeed Alghamdi, and Mohamed Atta were seen coming and going by neighbors. And that was only one of the places they frequented in New Jersey over the months before 9/11. They even had several bank accounts in the state.

We also don't know where some of the hijackers were for extended periods of time. For example, Atta dropped completely off the FBI's radar in the US for a week during a time when Czech authorities said he turned up in Prague and met with an Iraqi agent. We know that al-qaeda members were in contact with Iraqis, and thus might have received weaponized anthrax from them. We know that Iraq was capable of weaponizing anthrax and could have had access to that specific strain even. We know that Iraq's leadership had discussed using third parties to attack the US with WMD. We know that an Iraq paper owned by one of Saddam's son's seems to have been aware there was going to be an attack on the US closely matching 9/11.

We also know that al-Qaeda was interested in anthrax. In fact, we know that Atta and several other hijackers asked about buying and modifying crop dusters, which KSM, a top al-qaeda member who was already in custody at the time, had admitted when interrogated was looked at by al-Qaeda as a means to spread ... guess what? ... anthrax.

But I've open mind. Just explain how the first case was infected and the curious coincidence that the case worked only a few miles from where some of the hijackers were living in Florida. If the FBI can show that Ivins could have known where they were at the time the letter that passed through AMI was mailed, then they might be on the right track. But until then, call me skeptical. Especially since there are facts suggesting that letter was mailed BEFORE 9/11.
 
First of all, is the FBI telling the truth in saying they searched and found nothing in hijacker possessions related to anthrax?

If they were going to lie about that, I would think that they might as well lie and say they found better evidence against Ivins. I also can't see any possible motivation for the FBI to not want to think it was Al Qaeda. This isn't like the Lockerbie bombings where the likely culprit (Iran) was an ally at the time and the patsy (Libya) was the bad guy du jour. Al Qaeda were the obvious bad guys, who why the heck would the FBI want to frame someone else?

Second, even if the FBI did check known hijacker locations and effects, we can't be certain that those were the only places the hijackers resided. We can't be sure that anthrax would have been transported from those locations to the locations that were known. We know that there were others involved in the 9/11 plot in the US, who are still not in custody. Therefore, we probably don't know all the places they resided. Nor is there a guarantee that even at the places we know they resided the FBI would have found anthrax had it been stored there at some point.

These are arguments from ignorance. Nobody said "There's proof the 9/11 hijacking team had nothing to do with it", just that there's insufficient positive evidence to say they did it.

You are wrong. We know that there were al-Qaeda members in New Jersey where at least some of the letters were mailed. In fact, some of the hijackers lived in New Jersey. For example, Hani Hanjour and Salem Alhazmi rented a one-room apartment in Paterson, New Jersey. Nawaf Alhazmi, Saeed Alghamdi, and Mohamed Atta were seen coming and going by neighbors. And that was only one of the places they frequented in New Jersey over the months before 9/11. They even had several bank accounts in the state.

This is a bit like that old trick question "If a plane crashes on the border between Canada and the USA, where do they bury the survivors?". If the 9/11 hijackers lived in New Jersey before 9/11, where did they live a week later when the anthrax letters were mailed? The correct answer in this case is "a week after 9/11 they didn't live anywhere, they were all dead".

Yes, they could have had a co-conspirator who stuck around on their home turf for a week cooling his heels and only then mailed the letters, there's just no evidence that they did.

We also don't know where some of the hijackers were for extended periods of time. For example, Atta dropped completely off the FBI's radar in the US for a week during a time when Czech authorities said he turned up in Prague and met with an Iraqi agent. We know that al-qaeda members were in contact with Iraqis, and thus might have received weaponized anthrax from them. We know that Iraq was capable of weaponizing anthrax and could have had access to that specific strain even. We know that Iraq's leadership had discussed using third parties to attack the US with WMD.

However you don't know the single most important thing, which is whether the 9/11 hijackers ever actually did have weaponised anthrax.

We know that an Iraq paper owned by one of Saddam's son's seems to have been aware there was going to be an attack on the US closely matching 9/11.

Sadly I don't think the JREF would offer me the million for my prediction that this is going to turn out to be male bovine excrement of one form or another.

But I've open mind. Just explain how the first case was infected and the curious coincidence that the case worked only a few miles from where some of the hijackers were living in Florida. If the FBI can show that Ivins could have known where they were at the time the letter that passed through AMI was mailed, then they might be on the right track. But until then, call me skeptical.

Coincidences happen. Sometimes that's all there is to it.

Especially since there are facts suggesting that letter was mailed BEFORE 9/11.

They were postmarked a week after the attacks.
 
Last edited:
Coincidences. Who thought the plane that crashed on Queens shortly after 9/11 and killed some of the firemen who had survived was an accident?

But it was.

Rolfe.
 
If they were going to lie about that, I would think that they might as well lie and say they found better evidence against Ivins.

Except then they would have to actually show that evidence. As is, they can't really explain or defend what they've already claimed. :D

I also can't see any possible motivation for the FBI to not want to think it was Al Qaeda.

Why not? I already told you one. The US wasn't ready militarily to take on the source of the anthrax if it was Iraq. If they'd revealed that Iraq was behind it, there would have been severe public pressure to do something about it … before we were ready. Cheney said as much back then. The following is from Bob Woodward's "Bush at War" book (http://books.google.com/books?id=BR...&resnum=3&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false ):

"I'm not going to talk about a state sponsor [of anthrax letters]," Tenet assured them.

"It's good that we don't," said Cheney, "because we're not ready to do anything about it."

Look at it this way. It's the same logic that kept the Bush administration from following up (or at least telling the public about any follow up) on the finding by the ISG in Iraq that WMD related materials may have been moved to Syria just before the invasion of Iraq. Because if it had been admitted back then that such materials were moved to Syria, there would have been a public demand that the government to do something about that … even though Syria is heavily armed with both missiles and WMD, and sitting in easy range of Israel's largest cities. Sometimes governments … even the US government … don't tell the public everything because it's deemed not to be in the national interest.

Quote:
Second, even if the FBI did check known hijacker locations and effects, we can't be certain that those were the only places the hijackers resided. We can't be sure that anthrax would have been transported from those locations to the locations that were known. We know that there were others involved in the 9/11 plot in the US, who are still not in custody. Therefore, we probably don't know all the places they resided. Nor is there a guarantee that even at the places we know they resided the FBI would have found anthrax had it been stored there at some point.

These are arguments from ignorance.

No they are not. They are arguments that come from an appreciation of the reality of the situation. We did not get all the al-Qaeda that were involved in the 9/11 plot. This is a fact: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aks-FBI-hunts-the-911-gang-that-got-away.html . And part of the reason is that we don't know all the places that al-Qaeda resided at the time. Thus there are places that could have been the location where the anthrax was prepared for use.

This is a bit like that old trick question "If a plane crashes on the border between Canada and the USA, where do they bury the survivors?". If the 9/11 hijackers lived in New Jersey before 9/11, where did they live a week later when the anthrax letters were mailed? The correct answer in this case is "a week after 9/11 they didn't live anywhere, they were all dead".

Funny story but you are still logically wrong. Given that we know there were other al-Qaeda beside the hijackers in the country at the time, there was nothing to prevent them from mailing letters after 9/11. Furthermore, as I said, there is evidence to suggest the first victim got the disease from a letter mailed BEFORE 9/11.

Yes, they could have had a co-conspirator who stuck around on their home turf for a week cooling his heels and only then mailed the letters, there's just no evidence that they did.

Now THAT is arguing from ignorance. Willful ignorance. :D

However you don't know the single most important thing, which is whether the 9/11 hijackers ever actually did have weaponised anthrax.

Other than several bioterrorism groups concluding that the lesions on several of the hijackers were consistent with exposure to anthrax. Other than several of the hijackers expressing an interest in cropdusters which would have had absolutely NOTHING to do with the 9/11 airline plot. Yes, all that I stated is circumstantial, but folks have been convicted of murder on circumstantial evidence. It's the quantity of such evidence that is note worthy. It's the fact that the government to this day has not explained the first case of Anthrax and the coincidence in it showing up only a few miles from an airport where the hijackers had asked about cropdusters and in a media outlet where the editor's wife actually had contact with some of the hijackers. It's quite a string of coincidences that the government is ignoring.

Quote:
We know that an Iraq paper owned by one of Saddam's son's seems to have been aware there was going to be an attack on the US closely matching 9/11.

Sadly I don't think the JREF would offer me the million for my prediction that this is going to turn out to be male bovine excrement of one form or another.

Are you so uninformed that you are unaware of this? :rolleyes:

Two 9/11 families were awarded over $100 million by U.S. District Court Judge Harold Baer based on evidence that Iraq was involved in 9/11 (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/september11/main520874.shtml ), in part, because of an editorial that was published July 21, 2001 in the Iraqi newspaper Al-Nasiriya which was owned by Saddam's son, Qusay. The columnist was Naeem Abd Muhalhal, who evidence at the trial indicated had a long term connection with Iraqi Intelligence. On September 12, 2002, Senator Fritz Hollings entered the editorial into the Congressional record (http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005332.php ). Here are a few quotes from it:

"Meanwhile America has started to pressure the Taliban movement so that it would hand them Bin Ladin, while he continues to smile and still thinks seriously, with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House ....."

"It seems that they will be going away because the revolutionary Bin Ladin is insisting very convincingly that he will strike America on the arm that is already hurting. That the man will not be swayed by the plant leaves of Whitman nor by the ``Adventures of Indiana Jones'' and will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs."

So just before 9/11 we have reference to upcoming attacks on the Pentagon, the White House and, if we are going to curse the memory of Frank Sinatra, New York (since New York, New York was Sinatra's most famous song). Mulhalhal also stated, “The wings of a dove and the bullet are all but one and the same in the heart of a believer," which perhaps references an airplane attack. How could these people have had such foreknowledge of the attack details without Iraq being involved at some level in 9/11? In fact, that court heard that evidence and ruled that Iraq was indeed involved in 9/11. So it's not just "male bovine excrement".

Coincidences happen.

But in this case you're asking us to believe in coincidence piled on coincidence piled on coincidence piled on coincidence. After a while you have wonder if it really was just coincidence.

Quote:
Especially since there are facts suggesting that letter was mailed BEFORE 9/11.

They were postmarked a week after the attacks.

But not necessarily the first letter. MSNBC quoted Newsweek (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067576/site/newsweek/) saying that the Lopez letter arrived a week before 9/11. This site, http://www.postalmag.com/editorial14.htm, dedicated to postal employees, also says that the Lopez letter arrived the 4th. Here's another site that says the 4th: http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/anthraxreport.htm. And this site, http://anthrax2001.blogspot.com/, states "The media reports on the AMI letters confirm what the CDC reports in many important details. The media reported that Bob Stevens was indeed seen by his colleagues holding a letter close to his face on September 19, 2001. It was pointed out by Phil Brennan writing for Newsmax that this letter that Stevens was seen reading had actually arrived at AMI on September 4, 2001." So maybe Steven's contracted the anthrax on September 19th, however the letter arrived at AMI before 9/11. And if it arrived before 9/11 to coincidentally infect someone working within a few miles of where the hijackers stayed, that sort of rules out a domestic terrorist, doesn't it?

Or maybe the source wasn't that letter. We really don't know. But we do know Stevens started showing symptoms some time before October 2nd, when he was hospitalized. This somewhat authoritative report (http://www.fpd.umn.edu/files/GlobalChron.pdf at a link no longer working) said the onset of symptoms was around September 28th. Inhalation anthrax has an uncertain incubation time (from less than a week or two to as much as 2 months). The median time is reported to be 10 days according to one study. The CDC says its generally less than 2 weeks but "due to spore dormancy and slow clearance from the lungs, the incubation period for inhalational anthrax may be prolonged." And according to CNN, Florida Health Secretary Dr. John Agwunobi advised anyone who spent more than an hour in the AMI building since August 1st to report for testing. Just to give you an idea of how uncertain officials might really be about the timeline.

The bottom line is we don't really know when Stevens was exposed. The hijackers killed on 9/11 could indeed have done it within the margins of certainty on what we do know. And when that's combined with all the rest that I've noted ...
 
Why not? I already told you one. The US wasn't ready militarily to take on the source of the anthrax if it was Iraq. If they'd revealed that Iraq was behind it, there would have been severe public pressure to do something about it … before we were ready.

So what? It's not like there was an election coming up or any other pressing reason to care about such public pressure, nor if they did care would there be any reason to launch an all-out war rather than just bombing something as a token retaliation since the USAF was over there shooting down anything that went into their self-declared and technically illegal "no fly zone" anyway.

I don't buy this as a motive for framing an innocent US scientist.

Are you so uninformed that you are unaware of this? :rolleyes:

Two 9/11 families were awarded over $100 million by U.S. District Court Judge Harold Baer based on evidence that Iraq was involved in 9/11 (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/september11/main520874.shtml ), in part, because of an editorial that was published July 21, 2001 in the Iraqi newspaper Al-Nasiriya which was owned by Saddam's son, Qusay. The columnist was Naeem Abd Muhalhal, who evidence at the trial indicated had a long term connection with Iraqi Intelligence. On September 12, 2002, Senator Fritz Hollings entered the editorial into the Congressional record (http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005332.php ). Here are a few quotes from it:

So just before 9/11 we have reference to upcoming attacks on the Pentagon, the White House and, if we are going to curse the memory of Frank Sinatra, New York (since New York, New York was Sinatra's most famous song). Mulhalhal also stated, “The wings of a dove and the bullet are all but one and the same in the heart of a believer," which perhaps references an airplane attack. How could these people have had such foreknowledge of the attack details without Iraq being involved at some level in 9/11? In fact, that court heard that evidence and ruled that Iraq was indeed involved in 9/11. So it's not just "male bovine excrement".

If that counts as evidence, I bet Nostradamus was in on the 9/11 attacks too. Stranger coincidences than that have happened.

The fact that absolutely no evidence linking Iraq to 9/11 has ever come out except for these cherry-picked quotes which require interpretation with hindsight to see any connection make me think that there is no such good evidence.

Did you realise that you've also slipped into full-tilt conspiracy theory mode with the idea that Iraq not only knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, but was bragging about them in public in advance? Only in the world of CT believers are conspirators that stupid.

But not necessarily the first letter. MSNBC quoted Newsweek (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067576/site/newsweek/) saying that the Lopez letter arrived a week before 9/11. This site, http://www.postalmag.com/editorial14.htm, dedicated to postal employees, also says that the Lopez letter arrived the 4th. Here's another site that says the 4th: http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/anthraxreport.htm. And this site, http://anthrax2001.blogspot.com/, states "The media reports on the AMI letters confirm what the CDC reports in many important details. The media reported that Bob Stevens was indeed seen by his colleagues holding a letter close to his face on September 19, 2001. It was pointed out by Phil Brennan writing for Newsmax that this letter that Stevens was seen reading had actually arrived at AMI on September 4, 2001." So maybe Steven's contracted the anthrax on September 19th, however the letter arrived at AMI before 9/11. And if it arrived before 9/11 to coincidentally infect someone working within a few miles of where the hijackers stayed, that sort of rules out a domestic terrorist, doesn't it?

Uncorroborated early news reports plus Newsmax? :confused: Where's the actual evidence?
 

Back
Top Bottom