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A woman vet is worth 2/5 of a male

I can understand what you say Rolfe, but there is the practical reality. Practical reality means that I had to change vets because the one I had went pregnant and stopped working 2 years (not a big deal for me but for some it was). Now there was an interim vet in the mean time, but female vet deciding to go for family while male vet not doing it , happens far more likely. This is the same in many profession. I am not saying it against the vet, just that perception matters. And a man having an accident will not change that perception.

Where I work, during the last 20 years, four of my female coworker went pregnant /the other 3 were above 50), one worked about 1/2 of that 20 years time (her places was reserved by law when she came back), so if you looked at their salaries, you would think the firm is sexist, because during that family time their salaries was not bumped up while mine was, and we were doing the same job (well until 5 years ago).

Do I have a solution to change that perception ? No. It will stays that hiring or having a 20-40 woman you run into the risk she decide to want a family and take a maternity leave.
Until we get artificial womb, that perception will be left.

So saying that a female vet is worth 2/5 a male vet is a disgrace. But one should not be blind to the fact that a crushing majority of the family time taken , happen on the female side (not always a colleague male colleague took 1 year - mostly out of tax reason as he was earneing less than his wife).
 
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Inherent in this comment is the thought that the 3/5 (he claims) of time a woman spends having and raising kids is not of worth, either to society generally or to the vet profession specifically.

As a matter of plain common sense, this is idiotic. In the general sense, the entire future of society depends on women doing this. And even in the specific sense, the next generation of vets depends on this.

It's strange to me that any business would begrudge women the time needed to raise children when the future existence of every company is completely dependent on their doing so.
 
casebro said:
I do know several professional women who stopped working after the second baby. Or went to part time. I thought maybe the chancellor was taking that into account?
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And I know professional men who've abandoned or changer careers. People do it.
 
Rolfe said:
As a vet who has never married or had children and has worked full-time her entire life, including as a partner in a practice for ten years, I find that comment astoundingly offensive.

Back in the late 1960s when I was fixing up to go to vet college my riding instructor said to me, "they won't want you because you'll get married." Even aged 16 I had a feeling that might not be going to happen, and I was terrified. If I wasn't going to get married I needed a good career to support myself throughout my life on a single income, and if I was going to be barred from such a career on these grounds, what the hell was I going to do?

Fortunately the Dean of the Faculty in the late 1960s was more enlightened. Our class was the first to have approximately equal numbers of male and female students. He actually said to us that he'd decided the profession couldn't go on ignoring half the talent in the population. Over my career I've had, and still have, many talented and committed female colleagues who work full-time - including some with several children.

There is an issue now that the balance of the profession is tipping massively to the female side. It's not just that there is a higher percentage of "wastage" of trained graduates because of this, but the smaller percentage of colleagues who see a partership as part of their career path. But this has to be tackled sensibly and rationally, not by flinging out insults that stick to committed and hard-working women graduates who more than pull their weight.

You can't predict where an individual's career path will take them. A young man who graduated with me was killed in a car crash the following year. That's about as big a waste of an education as you can get. Some graduates will fall by the wayside for any number of reasons. The percentage of women graduates who take time out or work part time is higher on average than that of male graduates doing similar. It's something to take into account.

But if I ever find myself in the same room as this joker, he better watch out.
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Well said. :thumbsup:
 
I really have to wonder about the "2/5" part. A misquote or a misspeak. No one could possibly believe that there was a basis for that particular fraction.
 
Seismosaurus said:
Inherent in this comment is the thought that the 3/5 (he claims) of time a woman spends having and raising kids is not of worth, either to society generally or to the vet profession specifically.

As a matter of plain common sense, this is idiotic. In the general sense, the entire future of society depends on women doing this. And even in the specific sense, the next generation of vets depends on this.

It's strange to me that any business would begrudge women the time needed to raise children when the future existence of every company is completely dependent on their doing so.
Click to expand...


Like all businesses, they'd like someone else to pay for it.


If my workforce is made up of all males and yours is made up of all females, some of whom have to take paid time off to have babies, then I'm going to make more money than you. You're going to need to find some cover or some overtime while your staff are off giving birth and dealing with newborns, which costs time and money, you also, depending on local laws, may have to pay the expectant/new mother a wage or a portion of a wage while she's not working, which costs money. I, employing an all male staff have that problem in very tiny amounts - given the differing time off taken by ladies and gentlemen - or not at all.

End result, you can feel all rosy about having facilitated the continuation of the human race but my house and car will be bigger.
 
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Aepervius said:
I can understand what you say Rolfe, but there is the practical reality. Practical reality means that I had to change vets because the one I had went pregnant and stopped working 2 years (not a big deal for me but for some it was). Now there was an interim vet in the mean time, but female vet deciding to go for family while male vet not doing it , happens far more likely. This is the same in many profession. I am not saying it against the vet, just that perception matters. And a man having an accident will not change that perception.

Where I work, during the last 20 years, four of my female coworker went pregnant /the other 3 were above 50), one worked about 1/2 of that 20 years time (her places was reserved by law when she came back), so if you looked at their salaries, you would think the firm is sexist, because during that family time their salaries was not bumped up while mine was, and we were doing the same job (well until 5 years ago).

Do I have a solution to change that perception ? No. It will stays that hiring or having a 20-40 woman you run into the risk she decide to want a family and take a maternity leave.
Until we get artificial womb, that perception will be left.

So saying that a female vet is worth 2/5 a male vet is a disgrace. But one should not be blind to the fact that a crushing majority of the family time taken , happen on the female side (not always a colleague male colleague took 1 year - mostly out of tax reason as he was earneing less than his wife).
Click to expand...


I thought that was more or less what I said.

There is an issue now that the balance of the profession is tipping massively to the female side. It's not just that there is a higher percentage of "wastage" of trained graduates because of this, but the smaller percentage of colleagues who see a partership as part of their career path. But this has to be tackled sensibly and rationally, not by flinging out insults that stick to committed and hard-working women graduates who more than pull their weight.

You can't predict where an individual's career path will take them. A young man who graduated with me was killed in a car crash the following year. That's about as big a waste of an education as you can get. Some graduates will fall by the wayside for any number of reasons. The percentage of women graduates who take time out or work part time is higher on average than that of male graduates doing similar. It's something to take into account.
Click to expand...
 
I think the whole thing is men over report the hours they work and women under report the hours work.

I have lived in the same town for 15 years now, and have gone to two dentists, 3 internists and the same vet. Sample size of one.

The internists are all male, male dentist to female and the vet is male but a husband wife team. The vets getting long in the tooth though.


"It's something to take into account"

So pay them more!
 
Of course, the "women are likely to take maternity/family leave and men aren't" is in large part a self-fulfilling prophesy because very few governments and businesses will provide family leave for men. If it was available, I think there would be a lot more men taking it. Obviously, biological necessities would still have women taking the bulk of it; but it's quite clear there are a lot of men who would as well if it was available.
 
luchog said:
Of course, the "women are likely to take maternity/family leave and men aren't" is in large part a self-fulfilling prophesy because very few governments and businesses will provide family leave for men. If it was available, I think there would be a lot more men taking it. Obviously, biological necessities would still have women taking the bulk of it; but it's quite clear there are a lot of men who would as well if it was available.
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I would have loved to take paternity leave after my wife was completely done with being on maternity leave and really wanted to get back to work. The problem is that I would have lost my job. Whereas she could take leave without the same risk.
 
Rolfe said:
As a vet who has never married or had children and has worked full-time her entire life, including as a partner in a practice for ten years, I find that comment astoundingly offensive.

Back in the late 1960s when I was fixing up to go to vet college my riding instructor said to me, "they won't want you because you'll get married." Even aged 16 I had a feeling that might not be going to happen, and I was terrified. If I wasn't going to get married I needed a good career to support myself throughout my life on a single income, and if I was going to be barred from such a career on these grounds, what the hell was I going to do?

Fortunately the Dean of the Faculty in the late 1960s was more enlightened. Our class was the first to have approximately equal numbers of male and female students. He actually said to us that he'd decided the profession couldn't go on ignoring half the talent in the population. Over my career I've had, and still have, many talented and committed female colleagues who work full-time - including some with several children.

There is an issue now that the balance of the profession is tipping massively to the female side. It's not just that there is a higher percentage of "wastage" of trained graduates because of this, but the smaller percentage of colleagues who see a partership as part of their career path. But this has to be tackled sensibly and rationally, not by flinging out insults that stick to committed and hard-working women graduates who more than pull their weight.

You can't predict where an individual's career path will take them. A young man who graduated with me was killed in a car crash the following year. That's about as big a waste of an education as you can get. Some graduates will fall by the wayside for any number of reasons. The percentage of women graduates who take time out or work part time is higher on average than that of male graduates doing similar. It's something to take into account.

But if I ever find myself in the same room as this joker, he better watch out.
Click to expand...
Other than yourself, whom I've never actually met, the only Vet I know is my Late college roommate's widow. She does, as he put it, "Raptor Repair" and wildlife rescue for the NM Fish and Game ddepartment.
Always a lot of owls and hawks, plus this year 4 bear cubs, and one resident cow elk (Too habituated to people to let loose).
She works a LOT of hours at her clinic, does the rehab and care at their farm, plus they raised 1 son, and she cared for her husband in the late stages of his life.
She's getting a New Mexico Heros award at the New Mexico Bowl half-time show tomorrow...
So I don't buy the premise...
 

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