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A nice essay

Docker said:
Your making it seem like I thought they fell faster than gravity when in fact I was saying the opposite as you well know.

If you want to play these games you will lose.
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Games? I'm dead serious, and you are acting like a complete fool.
 
Originally Posted by Docker
The people that say I never cite sources are liars. I do if I can and if I can't I make clear it's an opinion.
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Docker said:
I'm not doing your research for you, as you clearly haven't bothered to do any. Your idea of research is saying: "Gravy what should my opinion be today?"

Put FBI and osama into google
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oh, we do it for you,

are you too lazy to help fellow posters?

source
 
Docker said:
I said the essay was nice.
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Docker, I think puppies and beer-pong are nice too, but I'm not starting threads about them.

What was your point? Do you have anything to add to the "essay"? Do you agree with it? Do you not agree with it? If so, why? What parts?

What was your purpose in starting this thread?
 
realitybites said:
Docker, I think puppies and beer-pong are nice too, but I'm not starting threads about them.

What was your point? Do you have anything to add to the "essay"? Do you agree with it? Do you not agree with it? If so, why? What parts?

What was your purpose in starting this thread?
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So he can call people "straw man" and he can ask "when did I say that?"
 
I said the essay was nice.
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If you want to play these games you will lose.
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He han't had a trial so I don't know.
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I'm not doing your research for you, as you clearly haven't bothered to do any. Your idea of research is saying: "Gravy what should my opinion be today?"
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When did I mention government plot straw man?
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source?
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ok Imma break from sitting in the peanut gallery.

You post "articles", avoid making claims, "demand" answers.

Is this the CT idea of "civilized discourse"? Some passive aggressive teenage f*cksnob "demanding to be answered"?

9-11 isn't some game.
It's human history.

It's not an article on 4chan, somethingawful or ebaumsworld.

Watching you CTs "argue" brings the image middleschool kids about to start a fight.
 
So, Docker, you think this is a nice essay? Despite the fact that your answer to most of the "What do you think happened on 9/11?" questions is "I don't know"?



So do you agree or disgree with this comment that you quoted:

Docker said:
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
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because it kinda contradicts what you said when you said:

Docker (from another thread) said:
Was the Pentagon hit by a plane? Yes
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If the tapes of osama confessing his involvement were evident enough for you, then why hasn't the FBI use the tapes as evidence to prove Osama's guilt and have him indicted? By now they would list him as most wanted for the 9/11 attack, but it appear that they haven't yet done so.

The confession tape released by pentagon sometime in december 2001 came right after top officials from soveriegn government began to express doubts to the US of osama's involvement and asked for evidence.

Also Taliban has offered to hand in Osama if the US would provide them evidence of his involvement. Colin Powell has promised that he would prove Osama's involvement with hard evidence but he never did so.

So was osama telling the truth when he had denied of his involvement twice in front of camera?
 
geggy said:
If the tapes of osama confessing his involvement were evident enough for you, then why hasn't the FBI use the tapes as evidence to prove Osama's guilt and have him indicted?
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The FBI do not have a chain of custody for the confession tapes, therefore they are not admissable in a US court of law.


geggy said:
By now they would list him as most wanted for the 9/11 attack, but it appear that they haven't yet done so.
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See above.



geggy said:
The confession tape released by pentagon sometime in december 2001 came right after top officials from soveriegn government began to express doubts to the US of osama's involvement and asked for evidence.
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Sovereign government? What sovereign government?

-Gumboot
 
Just an aside, I'm getting really sick of the "Just Asking Questions" routine. It's pretty obvious that Docker believes that the government was involved. He continually just asks questions (JAQs off) so that he can never be held accountable to back up any specific claim. Case in point, this thread: he copies and pastes a post from another forum and simply states it's "nice". No opinon. No agreement or disagreement. No way to back himself into a corner.

Docker. Grow a backbone and stop "JAQing" off. if you want to discuss 9/11 then do it. Until then you are looking more and more foolish every post you make (which works out to looking more foolish about every 5 minutes or so)
 
geggy said:
If the tapes of osama confessing his involvement were evident enough for you, then why hasn't the FBI use the tapes as evidence to prove Osama's guilt and have him indicted? By now they would list him as most wanted for the 9/11 attack, but it appear that they haven't yet done so.
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If I make a tape confessing to a crime, my lawyer will simply say that I was joking, deluded, etc. However, when a known terrorist makes a tape confessing to an act of terrorism, and says more is on its way, I submit that he should be taken seriously. Do you agree?
 
VespaGuy said:
Just an aside, I'm getting really sick of the "Just Asking Questions" routine. It's pretty obvious that Docker believes that the government was involved. He continually just asks questions (JAQs off) so that he can never be held accountable to back up any specific claim. Case in point, this thread: he copies and pastes a post from another forum and simply states it's "nice". No opinon. No agreement or disagreement. No way to back himself into a corner.

Docker. Grow a backbone and stop "JAQing" off. if you want to discuss 9/11 then do it. Until then you are looking more and more foolish every post you make (which works out to looking more foolish about every 5 minutes or so)
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But there are questions. The jersey girls submitted 400 to the 911 commission and most werent answered. Can you blame people for asking them? Go to those widows and tell them they are JAQing off. You are pissing on those graves.
 
geggy said:
If the tapes of osama confessing his involvement were evident enough for you, then why hasn't the FBI use the tapes as evidence to prove Osama's guilt and have him indicted? By now they would list him as most wanted for the 9/11 attack, but it appear that they haven't yet done so.
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1998.UBL said
"We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson"

1997.UBL said

"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation."
"For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries.As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places."

1996.UBL said

"What happened in Riyadh and [Dhahran] when 24 Americans were killed in two bombings is clear evidence of the huge anger of Saudi people against America. The Saudis now know their real enemy is America."

1995.UBL said

"The urgent thing was communism, but the next target was America... This is an open war up to the end, until victory."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html


From these guys in 1998

Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh

"All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on Allah

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

There was three indictments issued against UBL in 1998.

Count one.

The named defendants, plus other members of Al Qaeda, "conspired, confederated and agreed to kill nationals of the United States
Bin Laden and others "provided training camps and guesthouses in various areas, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and Kenya for the use of Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups,"
Bin Laden and others provided currency and weapons to members of Al Qaeda and associated terrorist groups in various countries throughout the world.

Count Two.

Defendants bin Laden, Atef, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, and Odeh, together with other members of Al Qaeda "detonated an explosive device that damaged and destroyed the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, and ... directly .. caused the deaths of at least 213 persons, including Kenyan and American citizens."

Count three.

Defendants bin Laden, Atef, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, Odeh, al-'Owhali. Mustafa Mohamed Fadhil, Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam and Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan, together with other members of Al Qaeda "detonated an explosive device that damaged and destroyed the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, and ... directly .. caused the deaths of at least 11 persons, including Tanzanian citizens.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ho/alqaeda.html

Here are the actual indictments.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/indict1.pdf

For further reading please read here.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/indict1.pdf

This quite a long document, it is 31 pages long and all be it the intelligence failing are quite clearly acknowledged, Al Quada has the finger pointed at it repeatedly.It is well worth a read.

Before you go declaring Bin Laden to be nothing but a fall guy at least read up on exactly what is said about this individual and exactly what the nature of this man is.
 
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