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Merged 2024 Election Thread

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lobosrul5 said:
I wouldn't say "that is that". Its going to be 4 very ugly years where Trump uses his presidential powers for revenge and increasing his power, and with the potential for widespread civil disobedience, maybe even at the State level. But an angry mob of Democrats storming the Whitehouse seems extremely unlikely.
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i wonder if that happened how many people would suddenly change their tune about what to do with insurrectionists.
 
Hercules56 said:
No, it is "that is that" unless you are a traitor and an enemy of the US Constitution who think they have the right to violate the will of the people with violence just cuz the election doesn't go their way.

You don't burn down democracy in order to save it.
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Do you tolerate it quietly and passively as democracy is being torn apart right in front of you, though? Trump's been promising to do that, at last check. Mass civil disobedience in response to him actually working to do so is hard to call being a traitor and enemy of the US Constitution.
 
dirtywick said:
i wonder if that happened how many people would suddenly change their tune about what to do with insurrectionists.
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Oh their won't really even be trials. The handpicked Secret Service for Trump will be mowing liberals down with mini-guns if they get a touch unruly. <-- maybe a bit of an exaggeration but time and time again I've seen law enforcement react with kids gloves to right-wing protests where they don't for left wingers. They see one of their own.
 
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Hercules56 said:
And therefore its ok for the Left to do it in 2025 if Trump wins?????

So much for defending democracy and the Constitution.
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What if Trump starts taking a giant metaphorical dump on the constitution? What if he starts ordering his political enemies to be arrested and held without trial. Say the SCOTUS orders him not to but he pulls an Andrew Jackson: "let them enforce it".
 
Hercules56 said:
And therefore its ok for the Left to do it in 2025 if Trump wins?????

So much for defending democracy and the Constitution.
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uh, no. what?

i'd like to note that it's really hollow to invoke how important defending democracy and the constitution in your fantasy scenarios, but when in reality the guy that did it is running for president and imo you've mostly been supportive of that.

but to accept that now but condemn biden led fantasy scenario is some good hypocrisy
 
lobosrul5 said:
What if Trump starts taking a giant metaphorical dump on the constitution? What if he starts ordering his political enemies to be arrested and held without trial. Say the SCOTUS orders him not to but he pulls an Andrew Jackson: "let them enforce it".
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You don't save democracy by destroying it.

We have all the Constitutional safeguards we need to protect the Republic without having to stage an illegal violent coup.
 
Hercules56 said:
You don't save democracy by destroying it.

We have all the Constitutional safeguards we need to protect the Republic without having to stage an illegal violent coup.
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Do we though? It hasn't really been tested on what happens if the President just tells the other 2 branches of government to **** off, I'll do what I want. Jackson kinda sorta did.
 
Hercules56 said:
You don't save democracy by destroying it.

We have all the Constitutional safeguards we need to protect the Republic without having to stage an illegal violent coup.
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Not if they are not used. If 34 Senators say, "Yeah, punishing Trump for treason would be bad for us politically, so we're gonna let him get away with it", most of our safeguards fail, as we have seen.
 
Random said:
Not if they are not used. If 34 Senators say, "Yeah, punishing Trump for treason would be bad for us politically, so we're gonna let him get away with it", most of our safeguards fail, as we have seen.
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Let's deal with that bridge when/if we come to it.

If President Trump clearly commits undemocratic, impeachable offenses that TRULY endanger our democracy and freedom, and partisans in the Senate refuse to convict him cuz they are fellow Nazis, then we will have some tough choices to make.

Personally I'd rather secede from the Union than stage a violent coup.
 
I'm having a hard time imagining what the President could actually do, to truly endanger our democracy and freedom. Almost all of the President's power comes from having people willing and able to do what he wants. Not one or two people, but an entire branch of the federal government, millions of people.

I know some people are convinced that he's just going to replace the entire civil service and military establishment with fanatical yes-men on day one, but I have my doubts. Dude couldn't even get a proper insurrection going, and suddenly he's going to suspend elections, dissolve Congress, and turn the Joint Chiefs into his bitches? Pull the other one, it's got an NFT.
 
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In California's jungle primary, Steve Garvey actually led the field in the race to fill out the rest of Dianne Feinstein's term and came in second in the race for the seat's next full term. While it is extremely unlikely that Garvey will be competitive against Adam Schiff in November, there are a lot of reasons for concern about the results from the Golden State.

Elsewhere in Orange County was even worse. In the 45th District, another Biden-won enclave, incumbent Republican Michelle Steel dominated the field with 57 percent of the vote, despite supporting some of the most extreme anti-abortion legislation in the country, including a national ban and some illegalization of IVF—in a blue district! She looks as if she’ll run in the general against Democrat Derek Tran, who eked out a second-place victory, thanks to a fundraising advantage, over the state Democratic Party’s pick, Kim Nguyen-Penaloza. Despite being a high-priority race shortlisted by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, 57 percent would indicate that this district is far out of reach for November.
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In a district that Biden carried in 2020.
 
Ah yes, the paradox of trying to extend democratic rights as we know them to people whose avowed intent it is to destroy democracy as we know it.
 
theprestige said:
I'm having a hard time imagining what the President could actually do, to truly endanger our democracy and freedom. Almost all of the President's power comes from having people willing and able to do what he wants. Not one or two people, but an entire branch of the federal government, millions of people.

I know some people are convinced that he's just going to replace the entire civil service and military establishment with fanatical yes-men on day one, but I have my doubts. Dude couldn't even get a proper insurrection going, and suddenly he's going to suspend elections, dissolve Congress, and turn the Joint Chiefs into his bitches? Pull the other one, it's got an NFT.
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I hope you are right, and I also hope we don't have to find out. It is more likely, just going to be 4 years of complete stupidity, and the lights barely being kept on (especially since I think the House will be controlled by the dems). And thanking our lucky stars we are a federal and not unitary country.

ETA: On the whole I'm most worried about international politics if he is elected. Russia being emboldened and starting WW3 in Europe is a real fear of mine. In some ways I'm deeply conservative. USA world hegemony since the Soviet union fell has been awesome. Would hate to see it end.
 
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lobosrul5 said:
I hope you are right, and I also hope we don't have to find out. It is more likely, just going to be 4 years of complete stupidity, and the lights barely being kept on (especially since I think the House will be controlled by the dems). And thanking our lucky stars we are a federal and not unitary country.

ETA: On the whole I'm most worried about international politics if he is elected. Russia being emboldened and starting WW3 in Europe is a real fear of mine.
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If Trump wins, Ukraine will be annexed by Ukraine or become a Protectorate, Latvia will be next for invasion.

Maybe also the other Baltic states and possibly eastern Poland.

China will invade Taiwan.
 
lobosrul5 said:
ETA: On the whole I'm most worried about international politics if he is elected. Russia being emboldened and starting WW3 in Europe is a real fear of mine.
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Ironically, Putin made his first move on Ukraine during the Obama administration, with clear signals from the White House that they would be allowed to get away with it.

Then nothing during the Trump administration.

Then, after Biden replaces Trump, Putin makes his second move on Ukraine.

I think this sequence of events tends to falsify the hypothesis that Trump encourages Russian aggression.
 
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