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Merged 2024 Election Thread

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angrysoba said:
I'm no fan of being told to subordinate what I believe to the "messaging" of a political party.

I see no difference between that and abject propaganda.

Being told, "You must not say that!" is more likely to make me say it if I think it is true.

But that stance of yours, that you must say what is politically expedient and not what you believe is more likely to make me skeptical of what you say. It seems to be an admission that what you say might not be what you actually believe. I would be very careful about shredding your credibility like that and I absolutely refuse to do it myself.
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On top of that, the party machine's message of "We know this isn't what you want but it's what we're forcing on you so you just need to shut up & take it" is just another reminder of how hard that party machine has been turning against democracy lately while pretending to be worried about how bad the other party (the one they just roll over for every chance they get) is for democracy.
 
angrysoba said:
Then it would be better to argue that his age is not the issue, and the issue is his achievements.

Instead, you are telling people what they can and can't say, and that causes resentment.
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His age is the talking point.

Obviously I can't tell you what you can and cannot say. I still prefer to get to the point, it's simpler.


angrysoba said:
The fact that you often talk about "messaging" just makes it sound like you are policing talking points rather than arguing in good faith, and that is exactly the type of thing that, in my opinion, puts people off politics and politicians.
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In "good faith"? What would be in bad faith, like I'm lying or something? :confused:

My communication style puts people off of politics? Given getting folks interested in politics is not my goal, I'm not concerned. My goal is to get liberals and Democrats to recognize they are bad at political marketing and it's still costing them elections. I've been promoting political marketing since before I joined this forum. You can go back over my earliest posts at the JREF and you'll find me pointing out the same issues.

I know people are picking it up. I'm not sure how much of that is my influence, it's impossible to measure.

Regardless, I will keep pointing out things like how damaging it is that Democrats are repeating 'Biden is too old'. I'm sure folks on this forum who do so are convinced the GOP did not influence that belief. Just look at Biden, it's obvious. His legs are skinny and he fell off his bike. ;)


I find it annoying the media points out Biden's signs of aging while ignoring Trump's. That is changing big time now given Trump's gaffes have become too blatant to ignore. Good timing for me to be pointing out Biden isn't too old after all.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
His age is the talking point.
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The weird thing here is that you are the one who brought it up apropos of nothing. Look....


Skeptic Ginger said:
Speaking of the 2024 election, bossy SG repeats:

Biden is not too old. He is going to be the candidate. Get over it and stop amplifying GOP messaging! No matter if you believe it and no matter where you are repeating it, here, other social media sites, or with friends and colleagues, stop repeating it.

Just watch the first 4.5 minutes of Brian Tyler Cohen's podcast listing all of Biden's many many accomplishments in his first three years:




Compare that to Trump's one accomplishment: Tax cut for the wealthy.
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So who here is talking about Biden's age?

Nobody but you!

Do you think it makes sense for your messaging to see people talking about the election only for you to pop up and say, "Don't talk about Biden's age! Even if you think he is too old!"

Literally, you are the one saying "Biden's too old!". Maybe you preface that with "Don't say..."

I'm pretty sure that is not good messaging.

Congrats on making that the issue! :rolleyes:
 
Delvo said:
On top of that, the party machine's message of "We know this isn't what you want but it's what we're forcing on you so you just need to shut up & take it" is just another reminder of how hard that party machine has been turning against democracy lately while pretending to be worried about how bad the other party (the one they just roll over for every chance they get) is for democracy.
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WTF? :confused:

This post makes no sense regardless of which party I put in which place.

As for genocidal Joe or whatever it was you said, it's not like Biden can control Netanyahu. There's a lot going on in the world right now. I'm glad Biden is POTUS.
 
angrysoba said:
Then it would be better to argue that his age is not the issue, and the issue is his achievements.
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His critics within the party are already the ones talking about his policies & governance, not usually his age. The talk about his age is coming from his own defenders and from the other party. It's a peculiar combination. They're playing right into the Republicans' hands!

To focus for a moment on his defenders in particular for their tendency to bring up his age just to claim to think it shouldn't be brought up: another supremely odd twist they keep putting on it is the accusation that we are only getting it from some media somewhere somehow. But where is it being talked about? Right-wing outlets, I suppose, but I don't watch those, and the others just don't bring it up much. Meanwhile, I can barely ever watch Biden himself without seeing & hearing him do something that reminds me of how my grandfather was while my grandfather was dying of Pick's Disease. So for me to have gotten the idea from the news media, not only would they need to be talking about it, which they aren't, but they would also need to be going back in time and secretly drugging my grandfather or whatever to get him to be like that back then just so I'd have those memories now for Biden to resemble. (And for it to be a point worth bringing up over & over & over & over again like this, it would need to be the main thing his critics within the party criticize him for, which it never has been.)

The depths of utterly silly alternate-reality nonsense that the corporatists will resort to in their dedication to defending the corporatocracy know no bounds.

Just in the last day or two I even saw one or a few of them dredging up ye olde "But the moderate centrists!" as an election strategy again!
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
WTF? :confused:

This post makes no sense regardless of which party I put in which place.

As for genocidal Joe or whatever it was you said, it's not like Biden can control Netanyahu. There's a lot going on in the world right now. I'm glad Biden is POTUS.
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W...what now? Seriously, you are very bad at this messaging thing!
 
Mike! said:
I would say there are far more 'never Trumpers' than you realize. People who voted for him, twice, who will never vote for him again. They know it doesn't pay to be overtly vocal about it, but in more private settings, will openly say he's crossed a line they can't support. The trouble with those folks is, they think RFK Jr. looks like a solid alternative to Trump.
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Why subject yourself to death and rape threats by being publicly a never Trumper? What is the benefit?

No matter who a voter thinks the alternative is, chances are they won't be saying it out loud. Makes one wonder how many people claiming to be Trump supporters really aren't.
 
If it does come down to Biden and Trump, wouldn't we be electing the oldest President in US history either way?
 
Dr.Sid said:
Longer ? No. Any ? Yes.
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So a laughing dog was long enough but more was needed?

Come on, the premise was absurd. Half the country is not bowing down to King Trump. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You guys from countries other than the US don't have a clue what is going on in this country. You should take a deep breath and at least make an attempt to learn something about what is going on here before posting like your conclusions are meaningful.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
So a laughing dog was long enough but more was needed?

Come on, the premise was absurd. Half the country is not bowing down to King Trump. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You guys from countries other than the US don't have a clue what is going on in this country. You should take a deep breath and at least make an attempt to learn something about what is going on here before posting like your conclusions are meaningful.
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Well as an American you are more likely to have strong opinions and ignore the data. Thanks for nice example. Let it be warning for others. :rolleyes:
 
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