Merged 2024 Election Thread

[kookbreaker]

The very fine people who just wanted to force a white supremacy statue on the people of Charlottesville. Whassa problem?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I struggle to thread the needle between someone being comfortable hanging out with white supremacists and also being a “very fine” person. Who is that person?

That's a different issue, I don't disagree. I'm only referring to that particular news conference from which out of context clips have been pulled from.

Or maybe there's another place he used the same words, "very fine people on both sides".

 

[Norman Alexander]

Listening to that whole clip I have a change in my belief. He said good people on both sides but he also excluded neo-nazis and white nationalists from the people he was referring to.

Here's Wikipedia:

US President Donald Trump's remarks about the rally generated negative responses. In his initial statement following the rally, Trump condemned the "display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides." This first statement and his subsequent defenses of it, in which he also referred to "very fine people on both sides", were criticized as implying a moral equivalence between the white supremacist protesters and the counter-protesters. Trump later stated (in the same statement) that "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally–but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists".

Which is obviously complete and utter horse-****, because he knew as well as everyone did that Unite the Right was a totally neo-Nazi white nationalist event, filled with fascists. Wiki again:

Marchers included members of the alt-right, neo-Confederates, neo-fascists, white nationalists, neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and far-right militias. Some groups chanted racist and antisemitic slogans and carried weapons, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols, the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus vult crosses, flags, and other symbols of various past and present antisemitic and anti-Islamic groups. The organizers' stated goals included the unification of the American white nationalist movement and opposing the proposed removal of the statue of General Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville's former Lee Park. The rally sparked a national debate over Confederate iconography, racial violence, and white supremacy.

This was all on TV and very hard to miss the swastikas, etc.

In short, Donny was trying to sound even-handed while giving comfort to his peeps, the fascist mob.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

The very fine people who just wanted to force a white supremacy statue on the people of Charlottesville. Whassa problem?

There were people there that either opposed or approved the removal of a Robert E Lee statue. Those people were not connected with any sort of Neo Nazi or White Supremacist groups (that Trump berated). Likely most of the "very fine people" either opposed the removal of the statue or were there to peacefully assemble to voice their opinion for removal.

One cannot rewrite History by altering or erasing it. One must learn from the mistakes of the past in order to not repeat them. Cancel culture cannot apply to History.

Your narrative is as false as the fake news that created it. This can be a learning experience if you're inclined. I won't hold my breath.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Here's Wikipedia:Which is obviously complete and utter horse-****, because he knew as well as everyone did that Unite the Right was a totally neo-Nazi white nationalist event, filled with fascists. Wiki again:This was all on TV and very hard to miss the swastikas, etc.

In short, Donny was trying to sound even-handed while giving comfort to his peeps, the fascist mob.

How do you explain Trump's comments berating the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? His statement seems to destroy your narrative of "comfort".

 

[Aridas]

That's a different issue, I don't disagree. I'm only referring to that particular news conference from which out of context clips have been pulled from.

Or maybe there's another place he used the same words, "very fine people on both sides".

To add to that, even if he had meant racists and white supremacists, I wouldn't have held that specific line against him. People have more than one aspect and few to none of us don't have some problematic trait. One can be a very fine person for a lot of reasons and also be a racist, dominionist, or various other bad things. We are not defined solely by our worst (or best) aspects.

With that said, to poke at Politifact for context without needing to watch a video -

And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.

There certainly is something objectionable there with the attempted both-siderism and outsized focus on what was supposedly Antifa, but that's one of Trump's more mild transgressions, I think.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

How do you explain Trump's comments berating the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? His statement seems to destroy your narrative of "comfort".

Snort.

“That was the biggest ******* mistake I’ve made.”

That’s how.

 

[Craig4]

How do you explain Trump's comments berating the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? His statement seems to destroy your narrative of "comfort".

He's a lying sack of ****. Just because that filthy **** says something doesn't mean he's doesn't support Nazis. He is a Nazi after all.

 

[Norman Alexander]

How do you explain Trump's comments berating the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? His statement seems to destroy your narrative of "comfort".

LOL, you could try reading RK's link in post #1647.

 

[Norman Alexander]

There were people there that either opposed or approved the removal of a Robert E Lee statue. Those people were not connected with any sort of Neo Nazi or White Supremacist groups (that Trump berated). Likely most of the "very fine people" either opposed the removal of the statue or were there to peacefully assemble to voice their opinion for removal.

One cannot rewrite History by altering or erasing it. One must learn from the mistakes of the past in order to not repeat them. Cancel culture cannot apply to History.

Your narrative is as false as the fake news that created it. This can be a learning experience if you're inclined. I won't hold my breath.

ROFLMAO!! Seen the pictures of this bunch of "very fine people", pal?? Confederate flags and swastikas! Driving cars into the crowd and killing someone! It was even on Fox News, so it's unbelievable you missed it.

I can only assume now you are here just to play the really dreadful agent provacateur, being very successful at being very bad at your job.

 

[Aridas]

Snort.

“That was the biggest ******* mistake I’ve made.”

That’s how.

LOL, you could try reading RK's link in post #1647.

To add a bit more context, as the link made clear, Trump was speaking of the cleanup attempt a couple days later, which spurred on this -

One Fox News commentator gave Trump praise but also added, “That’s almost an admission of ‘Okay, I was wrong.’” Then Fox News correspondent Kevin Corke said: “Some 48 hours into the biggest domestic challenge of his young presidency, Mr. Trump has made a course correction.”

Trump exploded at the coverage, Woodward reports. “That was the biggest ******* mistake I’ve made,” the President told Porter. “You never make those concessions. You never apologize. I didn’t do anything wrong in the first place. Why look weak?”

When it comes to the cases for Trump allying himself with white supremacists or being one, that link just doesn't work for those.

If you wanted a link that would be better for the former of those related to that event, though -

Donald Trump Blasted Paul Ryan For Condemning White Supremacy, New Book Claims

Donald Trump flipped out at then-House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) for condemning white supremacists after the deadly 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, a new book claims.

Ryan responded to Trump’s infamous “both sides” rhetoric about the violence at the gathering with a tweet calling white supremacy “repulsive.”

Trump was apoplectic with Ryan over his comment, according to excerpts from The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward and Robert Costa’s upcoming tell-all “Peril” that Insider published Wednesday.

Trump phoned Ryan and screamed about him not being “in the foxhole with me,” according to the book. Ryan reportedly told Trump he had “a moral leadership obligation to get this right and not declare there is a moral equivalency here.”

“These people love me. These are my people,” Trump raged at Ryan in response. “I can’t backstab the people who support me.”

Ryan noted the presence of white supremacists and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville. Trump admitted there were “some bad people.”

“I get that. I’m not for that. I’m against all that,” he reportedly said. “But there’s some of those people who are for me. Some of them are good people.”

The whole can't backstab the people who support him and way that he seems to equate supporting him with being good people may be worthy of further discussion, sure, and another example of a more valid line of criticism can be poked at with acknowledgement of Biden's words -

With those words, the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it

Yet, just hounding on the "very fine people" comment, itself, will get you roughly nowhere. It's actually one of the particularly weak points in cases that many have made for Trump allying himself with or being a white supremacist/racist/something similar, which is exactly why ChrisBFRPKY and those like him have seized upon it and willingly bring it up.

 

[Aridas]

ROFLMAO!! Seen the pictures of this bunch of "very fine people", pal?? Confederate flags and swastikas! Driving cars into the crowd and killing someone! It was even on Fox News, so it's unbelievable you missed it.

I can only assume now you are here just to play the really dreadful agent provacateur, being very successful at being very bad at your job.

That wasn't everyone, to be sure, even if it being a rallying cry for such was the actual point, rather than the official justification that drew in some deluded saps who didn't find being associated with said confederate flags and swastikas to be enough of a red flag not to stick around at that particular protest.

As for the driving cars into crowds bit, it's sorta telling that the GOP later made efforts to legalize driving into protestors, with some success in states that they control.

 

[Delvo]

As for the driving cars into crowds bit, it's sorta telling that the GOP later made efforts to legalize driving into protestors

...and that, when Fox News showed a clip of one such event, the hosts/commentators were giggling about it and telling their audience to take notes because this would be so useful.

In the full context of who Trump is & who Trumpists are, picking through a Trump speech around one of these Trump quotes to find excuses to "well, ackchooly" yourself into an excuse that he didn't really technically say what he was clearly really saying amounts to nothing but a gloat that somebody who grew up around mobsters learned to speak Mobsterish. It's the same thing as saying that telling a crowd who's obviously there for violence to "fight like Hell" wasn't telling them to do violence.

 

[Craig4]

There were people there that either opposed or approved the removal of a Robert E Lee statue. Those people were not connected with any sort of Neo Nazi or White Supremacist groups (that Trump berated). Likely most of the "very fine people" either opposed the removal of the statue or were there to peacefully assemble to voice their opinion for removal.

One cannot rewrite History by altering or erasing it. One must learn from the mistakes of the past in order to not repeat them. Cancel culture cannot apply to History.

Your narrative is as false as the fake news that created it. This can be a learning experience if you're inclined. I won't hold my breath.

How's about you go over to Amazon and buy some integrity? Paying for express delivery in this case would be worth it.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

You have been the victim of fake news on more than one occasion. I've seen your posts repeating nonsensical fake news claims such as the "Trump forgot his wife's name!" nonsense and others. Does it ever anger you that the fake news headline made a fool of you by tricking you into repeating their lie?

That's why the world is laughaing at the likes of you. You keep being played for fools, yet you come back for more.

 

[Hercules56]

There were people there that either opposed or approved the removal of a Robert E Lee statue. Those people were not connected with any sort of Neo Nazi or White Supremacist groups (that Trump berated). Likely most of the "very fine people" either opposed the removal of the statue or were there to peacefully assemble to voice their opinion for removal.

One cannot rewrite History by altering or erasing it. One must learn from the mistakes of the past in order to not repeat them. Cancel culture cannot apply to History.

Your narrative is as false as the fake news that created it. This can be a learning experience if you're inclined. I won't hold my breath.

So you oppose the removal of countless memorials and monuments to Hitler in Germany after WW2? What about the removal of memorials and monuments to Communism, Stalin & Lenin that were destroyed throughout Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR? You oppose that to??

 

[johnny karate]

Here's Wikipedia:Which is obviously complete and utter horse-****, because he knew as well as everyone did that Unite the Right was a totally neo-Nazi white nationalist event, filled with fascists. Wiki again:This was all on TV and very hard to miss the swastikas, etc.

In short, Donny was trying to sound even-handed while giving comfort to his peeps, the fascist mob.

Exactly correct. Trump is a master at this kind of double-speak. He’ll say something inflammatory, then walk it back, and then pretend the walk-back is somehow proof that the inflammatory statement wasn’t actually inflammatory.

And in this case, it’s nonsense on its face, because again: Who are the “very fine people” who would attend a white supremcist rally?

 

[johnny karate]

There were people there that either opposed or approved the removal of a Robert E Lee statue. Those people were not connected with any sort of Neo Nazi or White Supremacist groups (that Trump berated). Likely most of the "very fine people" either opposed the removal of the statue or were there to peacefully assemble to voice their opinion for removal.

One cannot rewrite History by altering or erasing it. One must learn from the mistakes of the past in order to not repeat them. Cancel culture cannot apply to History.

Your narrative is as false as the fake news that created it. This can be a learning experience if you're inclined. I won't hold my breath.

While I don’t support this violent hate group, I am comfortable hanging out with them to express my fandom of a traitor to the United States.

Yes, that sure sounds like a “very fine” person.

 

[steenkh]

ROFLMAO!! Seen the pictures of this bunch of "very fine people", pal?? Confederate flags and swastikas! Driving cars into the crowd and killing someone! It was even on Fox News, so it's unbelievable you missed it.

There probably were one or two people who were not nazis or white supremacists, and those two were the ones Trump was thinking of when saying that they were “fine people”.

 

[Hercules56]

"Fine people" do not march shoulder to shoulder with KKK and Neo-Nazis.

The End