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Roman Dodecahedron

Ron Swanson

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Ron Swanson
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May 3, 2009
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I'm sure everyone has heard of the Roman Dodecahedrons.
I have watched a lot of videos recently, regarding them which seem to be popular on YouTube lately.
I actually came here to see what the members thought ...
... but I did a search and there does not seem to be a thread regarding them ...

There is no official, or universally agreed-upon purpose, for the Roman Dodecahedron,
certainly nothing in ancient texts had been found.
Here's a list, I shortened a bit from the internet, of best guess so far.
  • Measuring or Surveying Instrument Some theories suggest they were used for distance measurement, land surveying etc.
  • Religious or Ritual Object Given their fine craftsmanship, lack of wear, and occasional discovery in graves or temples, many scholars believe they had a symbolic function, possibly related to Roman or Celtic spiritual practices
  • Knitting Tool This one just seems unlikely.
  • Candle Holder Traces of wax found in a few examples suggest they might have served as candle holders.
  • Gaming Dice Or other gaming use
  • Other Speculations A "test piece" for an apprentice metalworker, to demonstrate skill.
Does anyone have any thoughts! It seems very intriguing to me!
I actually hope to get a 3D printer in the new year, and if so I will definitely try to make one for fun :)
Apparently there are free programs anyone can use to do so.

To me gaming use, (The Gaming Dice Theory) maybe for gambling, would be one likely use,
but wear patterns on the examples found, do not support this ... as the "ball ends" would wear quickly.
1766288080837.png
 
Knitting tool doesn't seem unlikely to me, those knobs look like you could wrap yarn so it intersects in the middle of a plane and then send a hook or needle through the hole to pull it through.

Twelve sides makes me think it might have something to do with the calendar.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Knitting tool doesn't seem unlikely to me, those knobs look like you could wrap yarn so it intersects in the middle of a plane and then send a hook or needle through the hole to pull it through.

Twelve sides makes me think it might have something to do with the calendar.
Click to expand...
Remember the the calendar was 10 months until Julius and Augustus decided they wanted to have months
 
Ron Swanson said:
Candle Holder Traces of wax found in a few examples suggest they might have served as candle holders.
Click to expand...
They were cast using the lost wax technique. This is where you make a wax model, put it in a casting medium like sand, then heat it so that the wax melts and leaves a void, which you can then use for casting copper or bronze. It's possible for this method to leave a slight wax residue on the casting medium, which could then be transferred to the material.

TragicMonkey said:
Knitting tool doesn't seem unlikely to me, those knobs look like you could wrap yarn so it intersects in the middle of a plane and then send a hook or needle through the hole to pull it through.
Click to expand...
If it is, it predates the first written records of spool knitting by 1300 years.

jimbob said:
Remember the the calendar was 10 months until Julius and Augustus decided they wanted to have months
Click to expand...
Julius and Augustus were in charge in the 1st century BCE. These objects date from the 2nd to the 4th centuries CE.

en.wikipedia.org

Roman dodecahedron - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
In my opinion, it's an object d'art that exists for the purpose of showing off the artist's handiwork and the wealth of the person who was able to afford it. Not everything needs to have a practical purpose.
 
Last edited:
Blue Mountain said:
In my opinion, it's an object d'art that exists for the purpose of showing off the artist's handiwork and the wealth of the person who was able to afford it. Not everything needs to have a practical purpose.
Click to expand...
That's one of the theories, yes. The problem is that it's neither a complex work of art, nor a particularly expensive one. They're made from bronze or copper, which were cheap, and made using quite a simple technique. I'm more of the opinion that it was a piece to demonstrate that an apprentice had mastered the basic techniques of bronze casting. But really, nobody knows.
 
arthwollipot said:
That's one of the theories, yes. The problem is that it's neither a complex work of art, nor a particularly expensive one. They're made from bronze or copper, which were cheap, and made using quite a simple technique. I'm more of the opinion that it was a piece to demonstrate that an apprentice had mastered the basic techniques of bronze casting. But really, nobody knows.
Click to expand...
Have they been found where casting took place?
 
Ron Swanson said:
I'm sure everyone has heard of the Roman Dodecahedrons.
I have watched a lot of videos recently, regarding them which seem to be popular on YouTube lately.
I actually came here to see what the members thought ...
... but I did a search and there does not seem to be a thread regarding them ...

There is no official, or universally agreed-upon purpose, for the Roman Dodecahedron,
certainly nothing in ancient texts had been found.
Here's a list, I shortened a bit from the internet, of best guess so far.
  • Measuring or Surveying Instrument Some theories suggest they were used for distance measurement, land surveying etc.
  • Religious or Ritual Object Given their fine craftsmanship, lack of wear, and occasional discovery in graves or temples, many scholars believe they had a symbolic function, possibly related to Roman or Celtic spiritual practices
  • Knitting Tool This one just seems unlikely.
  • Candle Holder Traces of wax found in a few examples suggest they might have served as candle holders.
  • Gaming Dice Or other gaming use
  • Other Speculations A "test piece" for an apprentice metalworker, to demonstrate skill.
Does anyone have any thoughts! It seems very intriguing to me!
I actually hope to get a 3D printer in the new year, and if so I will definitely try to make one for fun :)
Apparently there are free programs anyone can use to do so.

To me gaming use, (The Gaming Dice Theory) maybe for gambling, would be one likely use,
but wear patterns on the examples found, do not support this ... as the "ball ends" would wear quickly.
View attachment 67266
Click to expand...


It's a challenging shape to filament print in one piece, not much to adhear to the baseplate and internal supports would be a nightmare to remove. I'm sure it's doable, I might have a shot, but I'd wait until you're comfortable with the printer before trying it. It might resin print easier TBH.
 
Paul Whitewick has s few videos on them.

This is his latest one

As he points out, they aren't really Roman, they just come from that era.
They are more associated with the Celts, none have been found in the Roman 'heartland' of Italy or Greece

 
Blue Mountain said:
In my opinion, it's an object d'art that exists for the purpose of showing off the artist's handiwork and the wealth of the person who was able to afford it. Not everything needs to have a practical purpose.
Click to expand...
This is my thinking as well. It's pretty, cheap, and can stand on a shelf. Do they think people didn't decorate back then?
 
Their being Celtic rather than Roman is supported by not appearing in sny surviving Roman art, literature ir locations and only being found across the territories occupied by Celts.

I don't think they were sny kind of tool, jig or 'apprentice piece'
I favour a religious or decorative purpose.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Their being Celtic rather than Roman is supported by not appearing in sny surviving Roman art, literature ir locations and only being found across the territories occupied by Celts.

I don't think they were sny kind of tool, jig or 'apprentice piece'
I favour a religious or decorative purpose.
Click to expand...
I would favor it being some sort of tool. It's the different-sized holes that make me think it's more than decorative.
 
I like to think the dodecahedrons have some kind of sundial-like use, like if you align the right circle with the sun's azimuth while it's on a flat surface, you can tell something about something, the time or elapsed time or how flat the surface is or something like that. I'd need to experiment with a model outdoors to figure anything out.

The problem is, any such use would probably work just as well without the knobs. But the knobs have to be mandatory. They're too consistent.

So, what do the knobs actually do? They make the overall shape a bit larger (e.g. more stable on a surface or easier to handle), but the same amount of the same material could make the dodecahedron itself larger for the same effect. You could wrap cords around them to tie something or for some kind of weaving, but that's inconsistent with the wear (and lack thereof) observed on the artifacts. And they raise the bottom side above whatever surface it's resting on. I have to conclude that's their real function (along with possibly, also spacing the top surface from something else stacked on top of it).

So why was that space needed? One thing it would do is limit heat transfer, if the dodecahedron was placed in a hot cooking pot or something, but I can't think of any use for that. But it also makes the bottom circle more useful for holding something upright.

But what? Something not too big, because the dodecahedrons are not very big or heavy. Something that doesn't need to be vertical (or else opposing circles would be closer to the same size), so not a candle, or at least, not primarily a candle. Something that's round but varies considerably in diameter, so not (again, primarily) a writing stylus. Which leaves me one weird hypothesis: they're holders for the wooden rod a papyrus is wrapped around for storage, when it's unrolled for use. You don't want those rolling onto the floor and getting dirty which could get the valuable document dirty, so putting it into a holder makes sense. And of course you could use a simpler pottery holder (any cup, essentially) instead, but maybe the connection with written materials and literacy would make it an elite item associated with clerical matters. Which could also fit with the popular "ritual object" and "status object" hypotheses.

No, this doesn't account for the icosahedron. That one's for communicating with UFOs.
 
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