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Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

wareyin said:
That's what's so bizarre about Venom's "defense" here. According to the people who knew him, Epstein bragged about these massages to people he had just met, and flaunted how young his girls were. Yet Venom wants to portray those who knew him accurately describing him as a pedo as just some kind of vulgar joke?
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They joked about him being a "pedophile" and in other emails he accurately disputed that he was a pedophile, because that's hyperbole.
 
What has been completely ignored when it comes to Jeff was his obsession with Immorality, being a huge nerd, customer and investor in Cryonics. He had a standing deal to have a team close by when he was expected to die and cryogenically preserve his head until such time as (supposedly) they can graft him on a clone/cyborg body and revive him.
In an oh-so typical Epstein way, he also insisted that his junk be cryo- preserved.

Epstein also believed that to save humanity, he would have to pooulate as much of it as possible with his offspring, something Musk has adopted as his mission.
His emails speak of his Ranch where he wanted tons of young women to live and breed his kids.

It is strange that someone who strongly believed that he could live forever, and that he needed to to make sure the world would have continued access to his genetically superior genes would kill himself in a way that makes cryopreservation impossible and pointless.
If he had just served his sentence he could have died in the delusion that in a hundred years+ he would have come back a hero and martyr.
 
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angrysoba said:
Of course, it is always possible that something might be there and there may be some surprises, like in that scene in Jaws where they cut open the shark looking to see if it is the one that ate the boy but all they find are some fish (expected) and a car license plate (which no one expected). But I predict that this will be more like when a lot of people imagined that Wikileaks would blow open the 9/11 inside job. We’ll see some embarrassing stuff for some, we’ll see some reporting of stories we already knew about but people had somehow forgotten but no all encompassing conspiracy.
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This is one of those car numberplate things.

Hard left-wing critic of American imperialism, Noam Chomsky and hard right-wing critic of American imperialism, Steve Bannon sharing friendly a moment together. Though, now that I have written it all out, maybe it is not as surprising as I had assumed.
Link

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The Great Zaganza said:
What has been completely ignored when it comes to Jeff was his obsession with Immorality, being a huge nerd, customer and investor in Cryonics. He had a standing deal to have a team close by when he was expected to die and cryogenically preserve his head until such time as (supposedly) they can graft him on a clone/cyborg body and revive him.
In an oh-so typical Epstein way, he also insisted that his junk be cryo- preserved.

Epstein also believed that to save humanity, he would have to pooulate as much of it as possible with his offspring, something Musk has adopted as his mission.
His emails speak of his Ranch where he wanted tons of young women to live and breed his kids.

It is strange that someone who strongly believed that he could live forever, and that he needed to to make sure the world would have continued access to his genetically superior genes would kill himself in a way that makes cryopreservation impossible and pointless.
If he had just served his sentence he could have died in the delusion that in a hundred years+ he would have come back a hero and martyr.
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the immortality/cryonics thing can be linked with peter thiel, another vc billionaire weirdo that was buddies with epstein

 
Venom said:
I find the "rebuttal" to my claim the birthday book is vulgar humor based on conjecture and confirmation bias, so I'm not that interested in it as positive evidence for any kind of child sex trafficking scheme "the elites" were aware of but didn't speak out about.
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Your claim that the birthday book is vulgar humor is based on nothing but conjecture and confirmation bias, and completely ignores that Epstein's peers were accurate in this "joke". I think we can safely ignore your claim.
Venom said:
Epstein's girls going in and out of his house for money and then going to the mall is pulled directly from the testimony of Philip Guderyon, a former lover and friend of Virginia Roberts, who is presumably protected by the non-prosecution agreement against Epstein's "co-conspirators".
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And you're repeating that minimization, along with adding in some of your own.
Venom said:
The adult facilitators who enabled them were his assistants Lesley Groff, Adriana Ross, Sarah Kellen, Nada Marcinkova, and local recruits such as Virginia Roberts, Haley Robson, and Alexandra Hall.

Jes Staley, Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, etc were not involved in trafficking minors no matter how much you want to believe that dude.
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Your claim that the adult facilitators were limited to his assistants and local recruits like Roberts is just pathetic, and you know it. Your primary move here is to shift the blame for the trafficking entirely onto the staff, attempting to shield Epstein and his powerful associates from accountability.

Your secondary move, linking Trump, Clinton, and Jes Staley, is a classic false equivalency intended to protect the most obviously implicated individual. While Clinton's connection is based on admitted plane travel, Staley's is far more severe, involving years of financial facilitation, lying to regulators, having sexual contact with an Epstein employee, and exchanging unexplained emails with Epstein about "Snow White" and other women.

You have to deliberately ignore the publicly documented pattern of sexual misconduct and predatory behavior against the third figure including bragging about barging in on teenage dressing rooms with the express purpose of seeing them naked, his 15-year friendship with Epstein, and the claim of sharing a "wonderful secret" that never ages to maintain your blanket claim that he was uninvolved in similar predatory behavior.
 
wareyin said:
Your claim that the birthday book is vulgar humor is based on nothing but conjecture and confirmation bias, and completely ignores that Epstein's peers were accurate in this "joke". I think we can safely ignore your claim.
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It's a fairly reasonable inference. If you don't know people who don't engage in that kind of vulgar behavior that's not my problem. I know people from high school and college who engage in that kind of behavior.

wareyin said:
Your claim that the adult facilitators were limited to his assistants and local recruits like Roberts is just pathetic, and you know it. Your primary move here is to shift the blame for the trafficking entirely onto the staff, attempting to shield Epstein and his powerful associates from accountability.

Your secondary move, linking Trump, Clinton, and Jes Staley, is a classic false equivalency intended to protect the most obviously implicated individual. While Clinton's connection is based on admitted plane travel, Staley's is far more severe, involving years of financial facilitation, lying to regulators, having sexual contact with an Epstein employee, and exchanging unexplained emails with Epstein about "Snow White" and other women.
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How is that pathetic? How far have the standards for basic skepticism fallen that we can't even acknowledge that Epstein's likely known co-conspirators were his female employees and young adult local recruits? How old was Epstein's employee Staley allegedly had contact with? Was that illegal sexual activity or just a potential ethical breach? Key concept is illegal acts. Bill Clinton getting a back massage from 23-year old Chauntae Davies is not an illegal act. And she never considered herself a "victim" until after Epstein death. A little convenient, don't you think???

wareyin said:
You have to deliberately ignore the publicly documented pattern of sexual misconduct and predatory behavior against the third figure including bragging about barging in on teenage dressing rooms with the express purpose of seeing them naked, his 15-year friendship with Epstein, and the claim of sharing a "wonderful secret" that never ages to maintain your blanket claim that he was uninvolved in similar predatory behavior.
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On the basis of his association with Epstein alone I can't say Trump is guilty of illegal sexual activity, though I acknowledge he was closer to Epstein than almost anybody else. I've always said if anybody knew and looked the other way about Epstein's activity with the Palm Beach girls it'd be Trump, but I need evidence, and none of them mentioned Trump as an abuser. None of them mentioned Ghislaine Maxwell either.
 
Venom said:
It's a fairly reasonable inference. If you don't know people who don't engage in that kind of vulgar behavior that's not my problem. I know people from high school and college who engage in that kind of behavior.
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It's a completely unreasonable inference, because you are flat out ignoring that their pedo claims were accurate, and that Epstein was known to flaunt that he was into young girls in front of his peers. Any inference that relies on ignoring the facts of the situation is not reasonable.
Venom said:
How is that pathetic? How far have the standards for basic skepticism fallen that we can't even acknowledge that Epstein's likely known co-conspirators were his female employees and young adult local recruits? How old was Epstein's employee Staley allegedly had contact with? Was that illegal sexual activity or just a potential ethical breach? Key concept is illegal acts. Bill Clinton getting a back massage from 23-year old Chauntae Davies is not an illegal act. And she never considered herself a "victim" until after Epstein death. A little convenient, don't you think???
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It is pathetic because you are attempting to shift the blame for the trafficking entirely onto Epstein's employees and local recruits, rather than acknowledging the culpability of the rich and powerful people who enabled and participated in the network. Furthermore, your attempt to create a false equivalency between Trump, Staley, and Clinton fails completely upon examination. You point out that Jes Staley's contact with an Epstein employee wasn't illegal, but you know his actions went far beyond a mere "ethical breach." He was banned from the UK finance industry for recklessly misleading regulators about his relationship with Epstein and was implicated in financial facilitation and exchanging suggestive emails. He was a complicit defender of a known criminal. No one here is claiming Bill Clinton committed an illegal act, making your introduction of Chauntae Davies pure deflection. The key concept is that Staley's financial complicity and Clinton's association do not erase the entirely separate, publicly documented pattern of sexual predatory behavior of the third figure, which is what you are trying to achieve.
Venom said:
On the basis of his association with Epstein alone I can't say Trump is guilty of illegal sexual activity, though I acknowledge he was closer to Epstein than almost anybody else. I've always said if anybody knew and looked the other way about Epstein's activity with the Palm Beach girls it'd be Trump, but I need evidence, and none of them mentioned Trump as an abuser. None of them mentioned Ghislaine Maxwell either.
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You are conveniently ignoring the evidence of predatory behavior and association I just cited to shield him. That pattern of behavior is precisely what makes his deep, 15 year friendship with Epstein alarming. Finally, your claim that "None of them mentioned Ghislaine Maxwell either" is a blatant lie. Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficking and other charges based on the testimony of multiple victims who described her central role in the abuse, including grooming and participating in the sex acts. For someone who has repeatedly claimed to know more about this case than I do, making such a statement is astonishing.
 
venom, are you trying to say you went to high school and college with 50 year old guys who would hire teenagers as prostitutes and you guys joked about that? i’m assuming not and that type of context as actually really important here

like i understand how you could call a high school buddy a pedo for dating a fellow high school girl a grade or two lower as a joke. but when it’s 50 year old men saying it to other 50 year old men and it’s not really a joke but said in a joking way to a convicted sex offender, that’s a different thing.

and yes, they were giving him ◊◊◊◊ as a joke, that part i get, but there’s also the part that they knew enough to make the jokes to begin with. so you can’t have it both ways that they had no idea what he was up to and also decided to randomly joke about exactly what he was up to.

you keep trying to present them as the same type of joke, but in context of the ages and individuals and their histories, they are not at all. as an explanation it just falls flat to me when i think about it

imo of course.
 
I think it's important to remember that Epstein was not just a paedophile and a paedophile enabler, he was a procurer. Whether it's young girls you want or mountains of cocaine, Epstein was the go-to guy. His island wasn't the place you go to because you want to have sex with underage girls, it's the place you go to when you're a rich person who doesn't want to be accountable to law.
 
The Vanity Fair Interview brought some extra information, directly from the Chief of Staff, and person who probably knows Trump better than anyone still alive.

- Trump is on the Lolita Express Manifests
- Bill Clinton never visited the Island
 
OF COURSE they won't release it in full. They redact any grown woman smiling in a pic with Epstein or anyone he had dinner with. Wouldn't want to concede that he had any legitimate female friends whatsoever.
 
Venom said:
OF COURSE they won't release it in full. They redact any grown woman smiling in a pic with Epstein or anyone he had dinner with. Wouldn't want to concede that he had any legitimate female friends whatsoever.
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what kind of argument are you trying to make?
That it's okay to have sexual interactions with underage girls as long as you have a corresponding number of adult female friends?
 
Venom said:
OF COURSE they won't release it in full. They redact any grown woman smiling in a pic with Epstein or anyone he had dinner with. Wouldn't want to concede that he had any legitimate female friends whatsoever.
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wonder if his legitimate female friends teasted him for being a pedophile too.

but also a part of the issue is that they didn't release hundreds of thousands of documents at all. even if there's probably no evidence of any wrongdoing by anyone other than epstein in them. you have to wonder though, and given it's pretty likely the trump admin isn't withholding and redacting everything to protect the women, what are they doing? you've officially lost by court order, you must release this exonerating evidence and finally put the matter to rest so we can move on from epstein. pretty weird imo
 
Instead of trying to excuse the Rich and Powerful when they go to Parties where there are 14year old girls, think for a second what it looks like from the perspective of the girls: they see that Epstein is friends with celebrities, multi-millionaires and politicians, making it seem futile to go to any authority to speak about the abuse they have suffered.
They all did their part to scare the victims into apathy and compliance.
 
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