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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

Dabop said:
I wonder- Teslas sales are cratering worldwide, with many countries having their sales drop by 50% or more, despite overall EV sales going up by 10-20%....
Less money coming in...
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Agreed.

Dabop said:
AND the Tesla board just approved his 'trillion dollar payrise'- which has to be making investors bloody uneasy indeed- just WHAT does he bring to the table that makes him worth that much??? its not his 'popularity' as thats been on the downwards slope for the last few years... even the fanniest of fanboi's are starting to say 'well that IS a lot of money......
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Well no. The Tesla board recommended the package to the shareholders and they voted for it. That suggests that the thing they are uneasy about is Musk losing interest in running Tesla.

Dabop said:
And they got to get it in somehow- or the investors dont get their money....
And that makes THEM unhappy....

And trump and him aren't bestest buds anymore- so all those government contracts have stopped or slowed as well....
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Dabop said:
I'm wondering if 'the richest man in the world' is (like trump) worth a lot less than he claims he is....
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The problem is that his wealth is not liquid. It mostly consists of shares in Tesla and SpaceX. If he tries to sell Tesla shares, the price gores down which reduces the value of the rest of his holding and that is important because he uses his stock as collateral for bank loans. If the price goes too low (about $100 according to some estimates) he will be subject to margin calls i.e. the banks will ask him to put up more collateral or pay down some of his debt. He can't sell his SpaceX shares, at least not on the open market because SpaceX is a private company. So he doesn't have as much money as it might seem looking at his headline valuation.

From Musk's point of view the IPO has a couple of downsides: it slightly dilutes his control (they are only selling 2%, so not much) and it makes SpaceX subject to the rules of a public company. They have to publish their accounts and obey tedious rules that Musk doesn't like. I don't think SpaceX would be doing this if they didn't need the money.

I think this is purely about developing Starship. They have a $3 billion contract with NASA to build the HLS and I think they have used all that money up. I don't think SpaceX's other projects (Falcon 9 and Starlink) produce nearly enough - if any - profit to cover the expenses incurred on Starship so far.
 
i agree, off the top of my head i can’t think of why a private company would go public unless it needed money.
 
A question as I know little in this area: is a 2% IPO fairly normal? Naively I wonder if such a small number suggests that they sat down and worked out what was the minimum they could sell to meet a need for money.
eta: Must be a naive question as if true it would be a red flag sharper eyes would spot?
 
dirtywick said:
i agree, off the top of my head i can’t think of why a private company would go public unless it needed money.
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The other reason is to allow the founders to divest their shares.
Wudang said:
A question as I know little in this area: is a 2% IPO fairly normal?
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I don't think so.

Wudang said:
Naively I wonder if such a small number suggests that they sat down and worked out what was the minimum they could sell to meet a need for money.
eta: Must be a naive question as if true it would be a red flag sharper eyes would spot?
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Not necessarily. It depends on why they need the money. If it's so they can develop Starship into something usable, it could be a good investment, since it will translate to lower operating costs for Starlink and other business opportunities in LEO.
 
jeremyp said:
The point is that, within the EU there is free trade. This is enormously beneficial to everybody who lives in the EU.

Ask any UK based company that tries to export to the EU (or import from it) how much better it is to be in the free trade zone than outside it.
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To poke at this tangent momentarily with two points to add to the larger context without intent to refuting this...

1) There is value in redundancy, especially for necessities, while free trade can naturally lead to the centralization of production for some of them in the most economical area. For example, any political entity that controls a necessity could easily abuse that power and make things worse than they would be without free trade.
2) Free trade doesn't have guardrails against a political entity temporarily and artificially lowering prices to drive competitors out of business to cause the problem.

Free trade is generally good overall, but is hardly immune to being taken advantage of to make things worse, just like plenty of other good things.

dirtywick said:
lol is he asking who came up with pronouns?
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Not quite. He's fairly certainly talking about respecting people's preferred pronouns, rather than pronouns in general. The concept was around long before it was pointedly popularized, either way, which makes his question worthy of nothing better than an eye-roll anyways, though.
 
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Aridas said:
Not quite. He's fairly certainly talking about respecting people's preferred pronouns, rather than pronouns in general. The concept was around long before it was pointedly popularized, either way, which makes his question worthy of nothing better than an eye-roll anyways, though.
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one time i had honestly mistaken a woman for a man on the phone. i had bought a dog from them and it had worms and i was calling to tell them they had at their dogery. she was not very polite about the whole thing. i actually felt really bad about it, but at the same time she was such an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ about denying the dog got the worms from them.
 
dirtywick said:
www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Tesla US sales drop to nearly 4-year low in November despite launch of cheaper versions

Tesla's U.S. sales dropped to a near four-year low in November, despite the automaker's rollout of new, cheaper versions of its best-selling electric vehicles, estimates from Cox Automotive given exclusively to Reuters showed on Thursday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

tesla sales at 4 year low. cheaper versions of existing models seem to have eaten into the pricier sales rather than generating more. oops
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Same with Australia (hell its the same worldwide) the US sales drop is less than most other countries though- outing yourself as a fascist racist prick in the US is these days 'so what' while in TROTW, its still a big thing to be one....
In Australia their sales are down in 2025 for the yearly total 25% compared to 2023...

And thats with both 'new and updated' models being released in 2025, as well as substantial price drops for both the new and the old models!!!! with the new ones down 10% in price or more compared to the old ones price in 2023...
And yet their sales numbers are still plummeting....

Who knew outing yourself as a far rightwing fascist could be so expensive lol
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This was far from the ONLY thing that he was doing that was fascist, it was just the most noticeable....
People were saying it long before he did his 'salute'...
 
there’s way fewer ev options in the us.

there’s plenty of racists too. more than i thought tbh unfortunately for musk they were indoctrinated to hate any machine that doesn’t spew toxic fumes and/or make water poisonous
 
I should have taken a picture of the Tesla in the small grocery store in my town. Now I live in a very conservative town. Still, this Tesla had a bumper sticker that said I" bought this before I found out that Musk is a nutjob."
 
a_unique_person said:
I noticed a new model Y here had most of the Tesla branding missing.
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Not uncommon for those with Teslas bought 'before he outed himself as a fascist' to try and disguise their shame....

The ONE place Teslas numbers are going up in Australia is the second hand sales lol- theres more second hand teslas on the market than they are selling new in a year... sadly for the owners- there's not many buyers for them... (second hand BYDs usually sell within the first few days, almost all selling within a couple of weeks, while second hand Teslas can sit for months unsold , even with substantial price drops included....)
 

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bruto said:
It is indeed amazing how utterly, insanely ignorant so many people are about what a pronoun is. I know what they're trying to mean, but it seems some are really so stupid they would pass a law outlawing pronouns altogether.
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I'm pretty sure it was Jesus:

John, 18:5-6 "I am he."
 
dirtywick said:
there’s way fewer ev options in the us.

there’s plenty of racists too. more than i thought tbh unfortunately for musk they were indoctrinated to hate any machine that doesn’t spew toxic fumes and/or make water poisonous
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In Australia we have close to 80 different makes and models available, ranging from the small sedans like the Dolphin from BYD from under $30k to full size semi's like the Volvo and Mercedes...

Sedans (literally half the price of the cheapest Tesla lol)
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Mid sized SUVs like the Atto 3 and MG4
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Larger 4wd utes in either hybrids or all electrics
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A range of electric vans...
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Light commercial trucks like the Jac, Merc etc
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Heavy rigid trucks Like the bigger Volvos, Mercs
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And up into the semis, like the big Merc, Volvo etc
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Mind you these are just a tiny fraction of whats available....
And not a Tesla in sight lol
 

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