Happy for you to do that; perhaps including US for comparison. But I note as ever NatalieSalat's posts are innuendo and propaganda full and fact absent.
General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4
- Thread starter theprestige
- Start date
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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I remember you insisting that histroy is irrelevant when it comes to the conflict - at least any history going back further than Oct 7th.
NatalieSalat
Thinker
At the least, Jerusalem is off the table for any conceivable Israeli government after Hamas's "stunt".
I would be perfectly happy to keep to the present day, but when people like Planigale put together a stupid series of recent historical events purporting to show Israel’s misbehaviour as a way of “understanding” (ie excusing) the attacks by Palestine, it needs to be called out.
Jews have been the victims of Muslim persecution and far worse since soon after the rise of Islam, continuing for centuries. The fact that Israel is able to successfully defend itself now hits a very raw nerve for a number of anti-Israel posters here. A number of whom have advocated for the elimination of Israel as a state.
Planigale, as evidenced by their last post, has no intention of dealing with the history of Muslim atrocities against Jews seriously.
This is my issue. If Planigale wants to keep with current events, I would be happy.
webfusion
Philosopher
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Hillary Clinton has a few words about the lack of historical context and the 'short-form' video inundation of young people, making them particularly susceptible to misinformation and lies.
www.yahoo.com
arthwollipot's introduction of a video that may be AI-altered is typical of this manifestation.
Hillary Clinton Says Young Americans Are Pro-Palestine Because They Watch ‘Totally Made Up’ Videos of Gaza Horrors
Clinton complained young Americans were becoming sympathetic towards Palestinians because they watch "totally made up" videos on social media.
arthwollipot's introduction of a video that may be AI-altered is typical of this manifestation.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I really don't think we can be "perfectly happy to keep to the present day" in any discussion where hardline activists want to claim all of the land—from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea—on account of ancestral claims which go back further than the living memory of anyone in the discussion.
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Yes I get this, but to date the only commentary of the past has been “Israel/jews evil”.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
This is to be expected from anyone who affirms that decolonization is invariably morally good and who manages to somehow discount the Muslim conquest of the Levant when deciding what counts as colonization which needs to be undone.
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If you have a coherent argument to make I will address it. If it is: Islam bad; I won't. I would ask you to remember many palestinians are christians, they are treated no differently than muslim Palestiians. Israel does not just abuse, kill, arrest muslim Palestinians but also christian Palestinians; even palestinian jews (see samaritans).
I would argue that the Palestinian struggle for independence is a classical decolonisation struggle of an indigenous people oppressed by a colonialist system. Not a religious struggle. Yes Israel identifies as a Jewish state and non-jews are discriminated against, but Palestine is a multi secular concept, Christian and Muslim and Jewish. The commonality being that they are indigenous peoples, not European colonialists displacing them.
Complete and utter ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
You seem to be claiming Jews are not descended from native Canaanite people. If so, where do you think they originated?
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
One could as easily argue that the Hebrew-speaking people were pushed out centuries ago by the Arabic-speaking people, bearing in mind that only one of those languages is native to the region.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I still haven't seen an alternative translation of what the guy was saying. Like I said, I don't speak Hebrew, but the body language and hand gestures were consistent with the subtitles. The sentiment expressed is also consistent with what I have been informed about how Israelis, especially members of the Israeli Defence Force, think about Palestinians.
If you want me to believe that the subtitles were inaccurate, show me an accurate translation.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Stop right there. Criticism of Israel is not criticism of Jews. It is not antisemitic to be anti-genocide.
Trausti
Master Poster
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I dunno. The "anti-genocide" crowd only seems to care when they can blame da joos. Nagorno-Karabakh? South Sudan? Crickets.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
That's a lie and you know it.
Trausti
Master Poster
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It's a lie to say that they care. The genocide in Nagorno-Karabakh and South Sudan was Muslims against Christians. The "anti-genocide" crowd ain't gonna protest against that.
Sure. And I suppose those advocating for the elimination of Israel as a state (as some here do) think this would be an entirely peaceful, violence free exercise….
And where have I mentioned antisemitism in this recent exchange? I have been talking about selecting only parts of history which may (but don’t always) cast Jews/Israel as a persecutor while ignoring the centuries when Jews have been victims.
Now you tell me, is “from the river to the sea” antisemitic or not? I and many others believe it to be as it advocates for the elimination of Israel and no doubt a large number of Jews.