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NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports

acbytesla said:
Yeah, you would think so. But I have 4 brothers and 3 sisters and I am by far the smallest. 5'7. Two I of my sisters are more than 6 feet tall. I dated for a few months a girl who also towered over me. By your reasoning, all three would be males. And I would be a female. And you would be wrong.
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Statistically speaking, you're an outlier and so are your siblings.

Do you also have smaller feet than your two very tall siblings? What about your hands?
 
acbytesla said:
Me too.

And that is what I think freaks most men out about Trans. They're afraid that the girl that they are sporting a chubby over is actually a guy.

And what does that say about them?
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It says that males as a whole need to sort their ◊◊◊◊ out.

What it doesn't say is that such males should be given carte blanche to female spaces, to protect males from their scary tumescence.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Statistically speaking, you're an outlier and so are your siblings.

Do you also have smaller feet than your two very tall siblings? What about your hands?
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Yes to both. I've had more than my share of thinking I am not man enough. I didn't get over that until I reached the age of 30.

Yes a six foot tall woman is an outlier. So is a trans-person. And if a male is taking puberty blockers and other gender affirming drugs they don't grow to typical male heights. They don't develop deeper voices. Etc. So when is an outlier a female or a male?

I would bet dollars to donuts that for every time you suspected the she was a he at least half the time you were wrong. Trans women have been using women's bathrooms for a half a century at least. This isn't a new phenomenon.
 
acbytesla said:
Yes to both. I've had more than my share of thinking I am not man enough. I didn't get over that until I reached the age of 30.

Yes a six foot tall woman is an outlier. So is a trans-person. And if a male is taking puberty blockers and other gender affirming drugs they don't grow to typical male heights. They don't develop deeper voices. Etc. So when is an outlier a female or a male?
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They won't develop deeper voices or grow a beard... but they'll grow to essentially the same height they would have otherwise, and the same sized feet. Length of long bones as well as hand and foot size is controlled by the adrenal gland, which is unaffected by puberty blockers.
acbytesla said:
I would bet dollars to donuts that for every time you suspected the she was a he at least half the time you were wrong. Trans women have been using women's bathrooms for a half a century at least. This isn't a new phenomenon.
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I would take that bet, because we can almost always tell.
 
Emily's Cat said:
They won't develop deeper voices or grow a beard... but they'll grow to essentially the same height they would have otherwise, and the same sized feet. Length of long bones as well as hand and foot size is controlled by the adrenal gland, which is unaffected by puberty blockers.

I would take that bet, because we can almost always tell.
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Of course you would. LOL.

That is your confirmation bias coming through. Saying that "we" almost always can tell is the exact sort of thinking I use to have. "I can tell," I thought. But I learned I was wrong. I couldn't.

I love women. And I think the fairer sex, is on average, smarter than men. But I've never believed that women have better intuition than men. You're just as likely to be mistaken as we are.
 
acbytesla said:
I love women. And I think the fairer sex, is on average, smarter than men. But I've never believed that women have better intuition than men.
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I like to tell the poker players I play with that we know the women we play with aren't likely to be better at math than we are, but they are used to reading our ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, which makes them even.
 
Folk this thread wasn't merged into the general trans issue thread because it was a distinct topic, it is rapidly becoming the same discussion from the trans issue thread. Either keep to the distinct topic or it will be closed and you'll be directed back to the general trans issue thread to continue your discussion.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
Orphia Nay said:
It's important to know WHICH sports people are expressing opinions on.

I feel sorry for trans women who are barred from competing in Athletics because there isn't a category for them at events.

I don't think they should compete against women (I'm a runner, and I know that men are almost always faster than women due to muscle composition, heart and lung size, etc), but I don't know what the solution is.

Some sports may find men and women more comparable in performance but I haven't researched anything other than running.
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Actually, if there are sports in which trans women can fairly compete against cis women, distance running would likely be one of them. Biological men on the average have more hemoglobin in their blood than biological women do, meaning that they can transport more oxygen to the muscles that need it, but, according to the articles that I've seen, it takes only a few months of hormone therapy to reduce the hemoglobin level to that which is characteristic of biological women (on the other hand, muscle mass does not reduce nearly as rapidly).
 
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Orphia Nay said:
It's important to know WHICH sports people are expressing opinions on.
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Not really, no. We have a wealth of statistics, spanning almost a century, for a wide range of sports. Everything from weightlifting to chess, there's a distinct gap.

ETA: And as I said below, if you're not talking about all sports, there's no reason to talk about which specific sports. If transwomen compete as males in some sports, why shouldn't they compete as males in all sports?
Orphia Nay said:
I feel sorry for trans women who are barred from competing in Athletics because there isn't a category for them at events.
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They do have a category: the open category, which is dominated by males like themselves, for reasons which have been well established by now.
Orphia Nay said:
I don't think they should compete against women (I'm a runner, and I know that men are almost always faster than women due to muscle composition, heart and lung size, etc), but I don't know what the solution is.
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Males compete with other males, not with females, is what the solution is.
Orphia Nay said:
Some sports may find men and women more comparable in performance but I haven't researched anything other than running.
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All you have to do is look up the stats, going back decades, for any contest that measures weight moved, distance thrown, or speed traveled. That won't cover combat sports or sports that are judged subjectively, but it should provide you a wealth of insight into the real extent of the difference.
TellyKNeasuss said:
Actually, it there are sports in which trans women can fairly compete against cis women, distance running would likely be one of them. Biological men on the average have more hemoglobin in their blood than biological women do, meaning that they can transport more oxygen to the muscles that need it, but, according to the articles that I've seen, it takes only a few months of hormone therapy to reduce the hemoglobin level to that which is characteristic of biological women (on the other hand, muscle mass does not reduce nearly as rapidly).
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You could look up the men's and women's distance running records over the years.

And also, why would it even be necessary, to make this one exception? Even if a transwoman could theoretically not enjoy an unfair advantage in this one particular sport, why shouldn't they just compete in the open/male category, same as they do in every other sport?

If the point is to validate a transwoman's perception of being a woman, letting them compete with women in one sport but not any of the others won't do at all. On the other hand, if that isn't the point, then transcending sex segregation in any sport is unnecessary. (And it follows from this conclusion that it's not necessary for transwomen to transcend sex segregation of any kind that society currently considers beneficial or necessary to women.)
 
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theprestige said:
Even if a transwoman could theoretically not enjoy an unfair advantage in this one particular sport, why shouldn't they just compete in the open/male category, same as they do in every other sport?
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Because they have reduced capacity as a male, but higher capacity than females.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Because they have reduced capacity as a male, but higher capacity than females.
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I don't think that's an answer to the question. They can't compete with females because that would be unfair on the females, but the open/male category is perfectly open. That they would be disadvantaged is on them, and them only. Maybe add a category for transgenders in Special Olympics or something. I doubt there would be much interest in a Trans category in ordinary sporting events.
 
Ron Obvious said:
That they would be disadvantaged is on them, and them only.
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And people wonder why they get called anti-trans.

Ron Obvious said:
Maybe add a category for transgenders in Special Olympics or something. I doubt there would be much interest in a Trans category in ordinary sporting events.
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Transgenderism isn't a disability just because you choose to disadvantage them.
 
Does a male athlete gain a competitive edge when switching from male to female competition? The evidence seems to suggest yes. Hence its unfair to the real females athletes.
 
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