NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports

[AmyStrange]

Lol, they're called speculators because it's literally a guess. The stock market is inherently not predictable. All of the people claiming "oh, I've got a system" are looking at a short-term string of coincidences and assuming it makes an extrapolative pattern. Their systems are no better and no worse than the systems employed by any other bettor.

This is not the same as a diversified portfolio structure, which is based on the long-term tendency of entire sectors and countries to increase in value. Most portfolio approaches act to hedge against the risk of downturns in specific sectors, industries, or geographies, by spreading investments across several areas that move in opposition. And even then there's no guarantee of a profit... as anyone who suffered through the housing bubble could tell you.

No matter what anyone calls it, speculation on how something will happen is NOT A FACT until it happens.

If you want to believe that ALL speculation (even with tons of data points behind it) will always be right, go for it, but I'm not one of those people.


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[acbytesla]

Adults parading around in public with their genitals hanging out, dressed like dogs on leashes, with tail-dildos shoved up their asses is inappropriate, it exposes people to things they have NOT consented to take part in and violates their sexual boundaries. It exposes children to aberrant behaviors and gives the false impression that such things are "perfectly normal and just fine".

The public acceptance and normalization of erotic choking has resulted in several deaths that shouldn't have happened, and would never have happened if it weren't for the concerted efforts of kink-enthusiasts to portray it as "health normal sexuality". Same thing with anal sex, which frequently results in damage to the rectum as well as long-term incontinence issue... but because it's been intentionally introduced as "normal healthy common sexuality", it's now become something that is *expected* of teenage females, and if they're not willing to take part in it, they end up with the implied message that there's something wrong with them.

If adults want to engage in risky behavior on their own recognizance, in privacy, with other consenting adults, that's their own business - I have no interest whatsoever in policing what they are allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. But I absolutely do NOT think that anyone else should be subjected to watching or hearing about it in public, nor should it be presented to youth as "normal healthy" behavior.

There are laws already against exposing oneself. About the only place I have ever seen that type of behavior publicly is at a Gay Pride parade which you don't have to attend. But me, I'm not that squeamish. If I see someone's genitals I'm not clutching pearls. And I don't think if a child observes that they are scarred for life either.

And what exactly is normal healthy behavior? Is it a cannibalism ritual practiced by cults every Sunday? Is it "faith?" Pretending that the invisible and undetectable is real? Do you think ignoring reality is healthy and normal? I find what happens at an MMA event or boxing match far more sick and repulsive than anything I ever seen at a gay pride event. Yet beating someone's brains in is healthy and normal?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm not trolling anything, but go ahead and believe that if you want.

I didn't say you were trolling, but from an outsider's point of view, many of your comments about watching people squirm come across as extremely trollish. You've repeatedly insinuated sexism on the part of other participants in this thread, and you've haven't been particularly subtle about it.

Look - you don't like that I'm telling you that you're coming across as abrasive, combative, and bordering on trolling, right? I wouldn't like it either. On the other hand, however, I don't think you recognize that the people you're interacting with also don't like you telling them that they're being sexists and that you like watching them squirm about a female being good at sports.

In the interest of everyone having a useful and productive conversation, it might be worth tempering your approach just a wee bit?

I've actually changed my mind about a couple of things because of my discussions in here, and even admitted it when I was wrong, but it seems like I'm the only one here who has the guts to do that.

No, you're not the only one with the guts to do that, and it's rather insulting of you to say so.

This discussion has been going on for something like ten years. I can't find the original thread, it was from before the software change. But yeah - most of us have been discussing this topic and its repercussions for a decade now. Almost everyone you're interacting with has changed their mind in the course of that time. Nearly all of us started out with a different perspective than we have now.

But in the last decade, we've all done a ◊◊◊◊-ton of research on this and related topics, and we've educated ourselves, and we've debated and argued with people on it, and we've watched as it has unfolded in the real world.

It's really insulting for you to come in here, new to the topic, and condescend to all of us about something we know better than you do.

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I think you're an interesting dude, Amy. I think you're probably pretty cool, and we probably have more views in common than not. And I think that's true for you and most of the other posters here as well. I don't want to insult you, that's not my intent. But I do want you to consider that this has not been a one-sided interaction, and you've been dishing it out pretty hard. You have some responsibility for other people's irritation as well.

 

[AmyStrange]

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I think you're an interesting dude, Amy. I think you're probably pretty cool, and we probably have more views in common than not. And I think that's true for you and most of the other posters here as well. I don't want to insult you, that's not my intent. But I do want you to consider that this has not been a one-sided interaction, and you've been dishing it out pretty hard. You have some responsibility for other people's irritation as well.

No, you're not insulting me at all, but it does "seem" to me that no one else has the "guts" because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, but I'll take your word for it that there are others here like that.

When dealing with maga weirdoes, you have to be able to handle insults anyway, but I can also accept the responsibility that I've also gone out of my way to irritate some people.

Now, let's see if the others can also admit the same.


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[Orphia Nay]

The tactic we've dealt with many times involves someone coming in with a position that is not entirely unreasonable on its own, but contains some inherent assumption that isn't accurate. The more we try to address the inaccurate bit, the further and further away from reasonable the other person gets... and by the end of it, they've backed up to just calling us names and being entirely immune to any sort of sense.

This is where the "transwomen are women" regulars look like bullies. They gang up on people.

Then when the person leaves the thread, they attack each other.

 

[Ziggurat]

What I don't like is anyone saying or even just hinting at the "speculation" that women will ALWAYS be beat by men.

That's a straw man. Nobody disputes that some women can beat some men. Furthermore, some women can beat most men. But at the elite level, it's not "most men" who are competing. At the elite level, it's the best men. And in a lot of sports, the best men can beat all women. That's not speculation, that's observation. We have seen it happen. Now, you can try to argue that basketball is one of the exceptions where that doesn't happen. And you'd have to explain why you think Basketball is one of those exceptions. But you aren't doing that. Instead, you've adopted a position not based on what the facts are, but on what you like. You don't like the idea that the best male basketball players can beat every female basketball player. You like the idea that a female basketball player could be competitive in the NBA.

Reality doesn't care what you like.

 

[AmyStrange]

That's a straw man. Nobody disputes that some women can beat some men. Furthermore, some women can beat most men. But at the elite level, it's not "most men" who are competing. At the elite level, it's the best men. And in a lot of sports, the best men can beat all women. That's not speculation, that's observation. We have seen it happen. Now, you can try to argue that basketball is one of the exceptions where that doesn't happen. And you'd have to explain why you think Basketball is one of those exceptions. But you aren't doing that. Instead, you've adopted a position not based on what the facts are, but on what you like. You don't like the idea that the best male basketball players can beat every female basketball player. You like the idea that a female basketball player could be competitive in the NBA.

Reality doesn't care what you like.

Exactly, and like I've already posted twice, no matter what anyone calls it, speculation on how something will happen is NOT A FACT (or a reality) until it actually happens.

If you want to believe that ALL speculation (even with tons of data points behind it) will always be right, go for it, but I'm not one of those people.


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[acbytesla]

The tactic we've dealt with many times involves someone coming in with a position that is not entirely unreasonable on its own, but contains some inherent assumption that isn't accurate. The more we try to address the inaccurate bit, the further and further away from reasonable the other person gets... and by the end of it, they've backed up to just calling us names and being entirely immune to any sort of sense.

This is where the "transwomen are women" regulars look like bullies. They gang up on people.

Then when the person leaves the thread, they attack each other.

I don't mind being verbally ganged up on. I've been dealing with those kind of bullies my entire life. When I protested against the Vietnam War, for civil rights, for equal rights for women, for a woman's right to choose, for gay rights. When I fought for access for the disabled. There is always some group of people being unfairly marginalized.

I still will never forget a neighbor that I liked until he told me a few stories about being a police officer. How they would go to gay bars and when some gay man made a pass start a fight. And when the police came they arrested the gay men but never him and his buddies.

If you don't stand up for minorities and oppressed, you're no better than the Germans that ignored the abuse of the Jews, Gypsies and gays there. No better than the Southerners that watched people of color treated like crap. I have no tolerance for bigotry and hatred.

 

[AmyStrange]

I don't mind being verbally ganged up on. I've been dealing with those kind of bullies my entire life. When I protested against the Vietnam War, for civil rights, for equal rights for women, for a woman's right to choose, for gay rights. When I fought for access for the disabled. There is always some group of people being unfairly marginalized.

I still will never forget a neighbor that I liked until he told me a few stories about being a police officer. How they would go to gay bars and when some gay man made a pass start a fight. And when the police came they arrested the gay men but never him and his buddies.

If you don't stand up for minorities and oppressed, you're no better than the Germans that ignored the abuse of the Jews, Gypsies and gays there. No better than the Southerners that watched people of color treated like crap. I have no tolerance for bigotry and hatred.

Well said and thank you.


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[acbytesla]

Well said and thank you.

Thank you. But it is hardly anything special.

I'd like to say it was a sacrifice. It hasn't been. I'm a white, middle class, straight educated male. Contrary to MAGA, incels, etc none of us are truly disadvantaged by DEI etc. All this hatred of trans people is no less bigoted and terrible than what has been done to other oppressed groups in the past. That their haters think it's OK to single this extremely small demographic out really is no different.

But I get it. It seems strange. It has always felt strange to me. I can't comprehend why any male would ID as a female. And given the recent backlash the courage they must have to deal with it. It is far more than I have.

Maybe, in the future, this type of discrimination will also be thought of as unacceptable.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Exactly, and like I've already posted twice, no matter what anyone calls it, speculation on how something will happen is NOT A FACT (or a reality) until it actually happens.

If you want to believe that ALL speculation (even with tons of data points behind it) will always be right, go for it, but I'm not one of those people.


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You're splitting hairs that are hundredths of micrometers thick here.

I have a tennis ball, and I'm going to toss this ball in the air. I haven't done so yet - the act of tossing is in the future.
I state definitively that when I toss this ball into the air, it will come back down again.

Do you consider my statement to be speculatory?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don't mind being verbally ganged up on. I've been dealing with those kind of bullies my entire life. When I protested against the Vietnam War, for civil rights, for equal rights for women, for a woman's right to choose, for gay rights. When I fought for access for the disabled. There is always some group of people being unfairly marginalized.

I still will never forget a neighbor that I liked until he told me a few stories about being a police officer. How they would go to gay bars and when some gay man made a pass start a fight. And when the police came they arrested the gay men but never him and his buddies.

If you don't stand up for minorities and oppressed, you're no better than the Germans that ignored the abuse of the Jews, Gypsies and gays there. No better than the Southerners that watched people of color treated like crap. I have no tolerance for bigotry and hatred.

But somehow you have boundless tolerance for males ogling females without consent, exposing themselves to females without consent, and any number of other ways that this particular cohort of males is actively violating female boundaries and making females uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces.

And when females object to our boundaries being violated, and to being uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces by males who are bigger and stronger than us... you call us females "bigots" and say that our discomfort in such situations is "hatred".

 

[acbytesla]

But somehow you have boundless tolerance for males ogling females without consent, exposing themselves to females without consent, and any number of other ways that this particular cohort of males is actively violating female boundaries and making females uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces.

And when females object to our boundaries being violated, and to being uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces by males who are bigger and stronger than us... you call us females "bigots" and say that our discomfort in such situations is "hatred".

Men are going to ogle. I don't think you can stop that. Even some women ogle. You might consider that a violation. Which I understand. But I doubt we can stop that. I'm certainly in favor of Trans individuals being able to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with. As for other areas, I would prefer that people might be adult about it. That anyone wouldn't use such facilities to ogle or display their wares.

 

[AmyStrange]

You're splitting hairs that are hundredths of micrometers thick here.

I have a tennis ball, and I'm going to toss this ball in the air. I haven't done so yet - the act of tossing is in the future.
I state definitively that when I toss this ball into the air, it will come back down again.

Do you consider my statement to be speculatory?

You're comparing the law of gravity to an elite women basketball player having zero chance of making it with elite men who play basketball, and then saying it's the same thing? Really?

But to answer your question anyway:

Yes, because even though it's based on the laws of gravity, while the ball is in the air, a bird, dog or anything really could grab it and take off with it.

Actually, there are a lot of things that have gone up and never come back down again, or at least not yet anyway.

And yes, it may be splitting hairs, but my real point is still the same:

If you want to believe that ALL speculation (regardless of what you call it or how many data points are behind it) will ALWAYS be right, then go for it, but I'm not that kind of person.


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[AmyStrange]

But somehow you have boundless tolerance for males ogling females without consent, exposing themselves to females without consent, and any number of other ways that this particular cohort of males is actively violating female boundaries and making females uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces.

And when females object to our boundaries being violated, and to being uncomfortable and intimidated in our own spaces by males who are bigger and stronger than us... you call us females "bigots" and say that our discomfort in such situations is "hatred".

Yup, it's that infamous double standard again.

Us men can be quite disgusting sometimes, as anyone who has spent enough time in a locker room with us will attest.

It's like being in a meat market with a bunch of low-life jerks describing cuts of meat.

I personally hate it, and sometimes I'll say something about it, but If I posted their responses, I think the forum rules would just blot it all out, but you can bet the f**** word is used quite prominently.


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[Emily's Cat]

Men are going to ogle. I don't think you can stop that. Even some women ogle. You might consider that a violation. Which I understand. But I doubt we can stop that. I'm certainly in favor of Trans individuals being able to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with. As for other areas, I would prefer that people might be adult about it. That anyone wouldn't use such facilities to ogle or display their wares.

Unintentionally truthful?

That's the thing, tesla, and you've led with it right out the gate: MEN ogle. And transgender identified males are MEN. They're NOT women, they're men.

Your position, then... is that MEN should be allowed to use whatever space they want to... and females get no say in the matter, we just have deal with being ogled in one of the only places where we have been able to be safe from being ogled.

Congratulations on your quest to decriminalize peeping toms and flashers, I guess? Yay you?

 

[acbytesla]

Unintentionally truthful?

That's the thing, tesla, and you've led with it right out the gate: MEN ogle. And transgender identified males are MEN. They're NOT women, they're men.

Your position, then... is that MEN should be allowed to use whatever space they want to... and females get no say in the matter, we just have deal with being ogled in one of the only places where we have been able to be safe from being ogled.

Congratulations on your quest to decriminalize peeping toms and flashers, I guess? Yay you?

Most of the Transwomen I have met are interested in men sexually. I don't see many of them ogling women. The proble seems much more likely to me is women having a knee jerk reaction knowing or thinking that a person in the changing room might be male.

 

[AmyStrange]

If you want to believe that ALL speculation (regardless of what you call it or how many data points are behind it) will ALWAYS be right, then go for it, but I'm not that kind of person.

If I had to explain this with a funny cat poster, this would be it:

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[Brainster]

Orphia Nay is right, and you're wrong, wrong, wrong as usual.

I'm against making it a law that forces women to compete against trans. I think it should be up to the sports leagues and teams and not lawmakers.

Once again you bravely pronounce your opposition to something that nobody anywhere has suggested.

 

[AmyStrange]

Once again you bravely pronounce your opposition to something that nobody anywhere has suggested.

What exactly is wrong with being against lawmakers making a law that forces women to compete against trans?

And BTW, theprestige is the one who brought that up, not me, but go ahead and keep deluding yourself that it was me:

Post in thread 'NY Times Poll: Large Majority of DEMOCRATS Oppose Transgenders in Women's Sports'

Jan 25, 2025

True, but not every male has great stats.

Let's start over.

Do you believe that women's sports leagues should be required by law to allow a man to compete, if he says he wants to?

Do you believe women's prisons should be required by law to house a male prisoner, if he says that's what he wants?

• theprestige

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