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What would "god" need to do in order to prove that she really existed?

Many years ago I read a pair of books by the late Steve Allen titled “Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion and Morality” - in two parts. They were highly critical looks at the bible, religion and morality.

It was a long time ago, but he proposed that even if God came to him, lifted his house off its foundation, spun it around and set it back down as proof of his power, Allen’s first inclination would still be it was either some kind of trick or a mental disorder resulting in a hallucination.

Anyway this thread reminded me of that.
 
Many years ago I read a pair of books by the late Steve Allen titled “Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion and Morality” - in two parts. They were highly critical looks at the bible, religion and morality.

It was a long time ago, but he proposed that even if God came to him, lifted his house off its foundation, spun it around and set it back down as proof of his power, Allen’s first inclination would still be it was either some kind of trick or a mental disorder resulting in a hallucination.

Anyway this thread reminded me of that.
Yes, but like I said, God is supposed to be smart and omnipotent and knows that that's not the thing that would convince Steve.
 
Some of the problems with this are first we need to come up with a definition of what is a god vs non god being. Does a god have to be omnipotent, omnipresent and or omniscient? What combination of those is acceptable?

Lastly there is the creator deity definition where they created the universe. But is the creator of the universe god if they were just running a physics experiment? If a Physicist created a universe would they be a god?
From the OP,
my second premise was that GOD DID NOT write any of the bibles. Man actually wrote most of them (if not ALL of them), and I think their egos might've muddled up the waters enough (in their "holy" translations) so they could run things their way rather than hers.

The final premise that I offered was that, "She didn't give a rat's a*** which religion or bible we followed as long as we followed the Golden Rule.
So no, nothing written in the Christian (or any other) bible holds sway, except for the 'golden rule'. That's means no creator god, no omnipotence etc. These are assumed to just be the result of men's egos, as they project their visions of male superiority onto their 'god'. The real god(dess) need not have any of those qualities, and as a woman she would not be expected to.
Of course proving that someone is a god(for some definition of god) that does not prove they should be worshipped, I would be worried about anyone claiming to be god who was that insecure to demand all this worship.
Of course not. The only thing She would be asking of us is to follow the 'golden rule'.

So the question is, how would we know whether She was actually doing this? Just asking isn't good enough, there has to be consequences if we don't - consequences that would prove it wasn't just the laws of physics at play. So what sign could She show us that those consequences are real? She would punish or reward us in a way that couldn't occur 'naturally'.

This morning I was thinking about global warming and how we are continuing to poison the planet despite knowing what to do to stop it. I was also thinking about Christmas, and the practice of putting a lump of coal in the stockings of children who have been naughty. I then imaged what if Santa was real, and could really do that to people who weren't reducing their carbon footprint. My idea was that Santa could collect up all the net carbon each human was responsible for emitting during the year, and make it into a lump of coal which he would then drop down their chimney at midnight on Christmas Eve.

Come Christmas day the average person would wake up to find a 4.5 tonne lump of coal planted in their fireplace. But some good citizens would receive less, and some bad ones a lot more. The worst offenders would be squashed like a bug by an enormous black rock that couldn't possibly have gotten there by natural means. OMG, Santa is real! We better be good from now on!

This works just as well for a goddess too. Instead of Santa it could be the Goddess of Nature punishing us for making a mess of our planet. And instead of coal it would be a cloud of black soot descending over us. Scientists would have no explanation for how all this this carbon suddenly precipitated out of the atmosphere, and even less idea how these clouds were able to follow people around while not touching anything else. But the people would know.
 
From the OP,

So no, nothing written in the Christian (or any other) bible holds sway, except for the 'golden rule'. That's means no creator god, no omnipotence etc. These are assumed to just be the result of men's egos, as they project their visions of male superiority onto their 'god'. The real god(dess) need not have any of those qualities, and as a woman she would not be expected to.

Of course not. The only thing She would be asking of us is to follow the 'golden rule'.
So the question is, how would we know whether She was actually doing this? Just asking isn't good enough, there has to be consequences if we don't - consequences that would prove it wasn't just the laws of physics at play. So what sign could She show us that those consequences are real? She would punish or reward us in a way that couldn't occur 'naturally'.

This morning I was thinking about global warming and how we are continuing to poison the planet despite knowing what to do to stop it. I was also thinking about Christmas, and the practice of putting a lump of coal in the stockings of children who have been naughty. I then imaged what if Santa was real, and could really do that to people who weren't reducing their carbon footprint. My idea was that Santa could collect up all the net carbon each human was responsible for emitting during the year, and make it into a lump of coal which he would then drop down their chimney at midnight on Christmas Eve.

Come Christmas day the average person would wake up to find a 4.5 tonne lump of coal planted in their fireplace. But some good citizens would receive less, and some bad ones a lot more. The worst offenders would be squashed like a bug by an enormous black rock that couldn't possibly have gotten there by natural means. OMG, Santa is real! We better be good from now on!

This works just as well for a goddess too. Instead of Santa it could be the Goddess of Nature punishing us for making a mess of our planet. And instead of coal it would be a cloud of black soot descending over us. Scientists would have no explanation for how all this this carbon suddenly precipitated out of the atmosphere, and even less idea how these clouds were able to follow people around while not touching anything else. But the people would know.


Well said, and thank you.


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OK, NOW MY QUESTION IS: Let's say she came down to earth to set things straight, now what exactly would she need to do to prove (to you personally) that she was the one and only?
I don't think this is a particularly interesting question. Supposing that there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, do they have any obligation to prove their existence to you? No, of course not, don't be stupid. Do they have any interest in proving to you that they do? It's arrogant to presume they do. But if for some reason god wants you to believe in them, they can figure out how to get you to without our help, and without yours. And they wouldn't even need proof to accomplish it. So under what conditions could your decision of what proof you would or would not accept possibly matter?
 
If God made me God, it would be impossible for me to deny God existed.
But if you were God, you would be omnipotent. Nothing would be impossible for you.

If God made you God you could make God cease to have ever existed.

If God made you God you could make God have been someone else, which would mean that they couldn't have made you God, which would mean that you couldn't have made them someone else, which would mean that could make you God...

But this raises another question: if we are working with a model wherein 'God' is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresesent, then when the type of shenanigans I poked at above happen, even if they are undone (be that through logic, magic, semantics, spaceships or whatever) I would have to assume that these/this omniscient being knows and remembers every reality that happened, even if they unhappened in the end.

This may explain why so many religions claim that God demands weird and contradictory things of their adherents: God is mad. There is no way to be omniscient and remain sane. Add in omnipotent and omnipresent, and whoever this God freak is, they are out there, brothers and sisters, they are out there for us. Maybe.

That said, all this is assuming that God has a mind that works kinda like ours, just a bit cleverer. If God's mind works different from peoples', then OK, I guess.


A bunch of arse, when push comes to shove
 
That said, all this is assuming that God has a mind that works kinda like ours, just a bit cleverer. If God's mind works different from peoples', then OK, I guess.
We should expect that if God exists, he doesn't have a mind like ours. It's rather childish to think he would.

Isaiah 55:8 said:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
 
I don't think this is a particularly interesting question. Supposing that there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, do they have any obligation to prove their existence to you? No, of course not, don't be stupid. Do they have any interest in proving to you that they do? It's arrogant to presume they do. But if for some reason god wants you to believe in them, they can figure out how to get you to without our help, and without yours. And they wouldn't even need proof to accomplish it. So under what conditions could your decision of what proof you would or would not accept possibly matter?


Well, if it's so uninteresting, why did you bother to reply, or is it just because you like to criticize people and call them stupid?


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Well, if it's so uninteresting, why did you bother to reply, or is it just because you like to criticize people and call them stupid?


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What makes it interesting to you? What of interest have you gleaned, from the answers you've received here?

Ziggurat has responded to your prompt, same as everyone else. And nowhere did he call you stupid.
 
I don't think this is a particularly interesting question. Supposing that there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, do they have any obligation to prove their existence to you? No, of course not, don't be stupid. Do they have any interest in proving to you that they do? It's arrogant to presume they do. But if for some reason god wants you to believe in them, they can figure out how to get you to without our help, and without yours. And they wouldn't even need proof to accomplish it. So under what conditions could your decision of what proof you would or would not accept possibly matter?
What makes it interesting to you? What of interest have you gleaned, from the answers you've received here?

Ziggurat has responded to your prompt, same as everyone else. And nowhere did he call you stupid.


Yes, Ziggurat did.

I learned a lot about the views on religion from the folks on this forum, just like I did in the msn and fox forums. Another thing I learned is that there are rude people everywhere, although, a whole lot less here than the fox forums.


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Well, if it's so uninteresting, why did you bother to reply, or is it just because you like to criticize people and call them stupid?

I said your question was uninteresting. I didn't call it stupid, and I didn't call you personally anything at all. You have no reason to take any personal offense to that. If you don't agree with why I find your question uninteresting, that's fine. Better yet, you could even explain why you still think it interesting. As for why I bothered to reply, well, I did so because I think there are more interesting questions surrounding the possibility of god, and how one might come to believe or not believe in its existence, and you might even enjoy pondering some of those other questions.
 
Yes, Ziggurat did.

That was a rhetorical device used as a response to a hypothetical answer by a hypothetical reader to a question that you didn't actually answer at all. If you find that style off putting, that wasn't really the intention.
 
Yes, Ziggurat did.

I learned a lot about the views on religion from the folks on this forum, just like I did in the msn and fox forums. Another thing I learned is that there are rude people everywhere, although, a whole lot less than the fox forums.


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Okay, sure. What exactly did you learn about views on religion?
 

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