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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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Jukkelus said:
:jaw-dropp The Finnish countryside is dying out and the people are moving into the few bigger cities that experience economic and population growth. The young people from countryside move for their tertiary education and stay for the jobs. As a result, the growing cities are continuously expanding. The easiest place to build is the farmland around the cities. If you would actually visit for example Greater Helsinki Area you would see a lot of disticts built on former fields without any rocky formations in sight.

There is so much wooded uninhabitated area, Finland isn't running out of farmland anytime soon.
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Well yeah, man, but like, you still have to blow up the granite bedrock wherever you find it!
 
Vixen said:
That's not true. Just because someone has dodgy views about various things, it doesn't follow they are ipso facto dishonest in all areas of their life.
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And again this is a defense you've tried many times before. Anders Björkman is obviously, undeniably unreliable in exactly the areas you need him: physics and engineering. This isn't a case of holding loony spiritual views or unpopular political views. Björkman is demonstrably deficient in his knowledge of physics and engineering. Therefore you trying to cite him as a legitimate authority on physics and engineering is not going to work.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Why do you think dynamite has anything to do with the Estonia?
Last time you were here you ware saying it was Composition B that was used.
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We were talking about explosives and trying to identify the likely small package. To recap:

I agree that the suspect package could have been an explosive device containing between one and three kilograms of explosive.

This could have been Plastic or any one of the powerful liquid/powder explosive mixtures readily available (Fixor). The latter are much more powerful than TNT or C4 Plastic explosive. Can be transported easily and are not classified as explosive until mixed.

I agree, there is relatively easy access and availability of materials to make an explosive device and with the possible construction and estimated size of the package. The placing and the arming scenario suggested is however conjecture and one of a multitude of possible scenarios.
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Fellows

We moved on to the issue of availability. I just pointed out that explosives are used here in removing rocks.

I have no idea how or what would have been used. I just called it dynamite because that is probably what I overheard at some point.
 
Vixen said:
We were talking about explosives and trying to identify the likely small package. To recap:

Fellows

We moved on to the issue of availability. I just pointed out that explosives are used here in removing rocks.

I have no idea how or what would have been used. I just called it dynamite because that is probably what I overheard at some point.
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Or even if any explosive substance was used. As per the last sentence of your quote. Yet you persist in trying to discuss a topic you have no knowledge of as if it were fact.
 
Vixen said:
That's not true. Just because someone has dodgy views about various things, it doesn't follow they are ipso facto dishonest in all areas of their life.
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But, as Jay points out, the loony views that Bjorkman has are directly in the exact areas you want to claim him as an expert in, physics and engineering.

You are simultaneously trying to disavow him and rehabilitate him and neither of them is working because you can't disavow someone you obviously want to keep using as an expert and your rehabilitation fails miserably because your claims about him are simply wrong.

If we were claiming that Bjorkman wasn't a reliable source for physics and engineering because he believed in pixies you would have a case that we were unfairly tarring him. Unfortunately Bjorkman isn't a reliable source on physics and engineering because his claims regarding physics and engineering are so deranged that even someone who last took physics for their GCSEs can point out the areas where he is clearly either lying or incompetent.
 
Vixen said:
We were talking about explosives and trying to identify the likely small package. To recap:

Fellows

We moved on to the issue of availability. I just pointed out that explosives are used here in removing rocks.

I have no idea how or what would have been used. I just called it dynamite because that is probably what I overheard at some point.
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Last time you said it was Comp B
 
JayUtah said:
Can you explain how Google Translate put in the same ellipses in the quotes as Björkman did, in the same places?
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As I said the two Aftonbladet articles about Svensson came from Heiwa and it shows the same ellipse excerpt style that shows on the digital newspaper library.

Most Swedish newspapers seem to be behind the paywall but the ones I've cited would be to their direct website together with the url.
 
Vixen, do you have answers to these questions?

junkshop said:
To clarify: I was referring to post #1534, which was quoted and replied to by both JayUtah and MarkCorrigan (sorry, missed that initially).

Neither of those replies called you a moron. Or had anything to do with Rome.

I now see that you appear to have deleted post #1526, too. It seems that no one replied to that one.
Was that 'the Rome post'? Who is this OP who called you a moron? IIRC, you are the OP of this thread, are you not?
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JayUtah said:
You could have reported its author for moderation, if that was the case. Instead you posted a single-sentence response, doubling down on the claim not only that Sweden had committed, and been convicted of, the crime of enforced disappearance but also that they had admitted to it. If your critics got the idea that you deleted the post belatedly because you knew you would be held to provide a source for that, would they be unreasonable?
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I am not allowed to.

I wrote a piece about some close relatives having been builders. A poster took the opportunity to mock them which I was not prepared to tolerate so I removed the post.

Nothing to do with hiding anything.


The other post I deleted was a reply to a poster but then I noticed they had called me a moron.


Nothing nefarious about it at all.

Please show me the Rome post you claim I deleted.
 
Vixen said:
I am not allowed to.

I wrote a piece about some close relatives having been builders. A poster took the opportunity to mock them which I was not prepared to tolerate so I removed the post.

Nothing to do with hiding anything.


The other post I deleted was a reply to a poster but then I noticed they had called me a moron.

Nothing nefarious about it at all.

Please show me the Rome post you claim I deleted.
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Steve said:
A thread search shows that the word "moron" was used in exactly one post by exactly one poster. Can you guess which post and which poster that might be?
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Well?

ETA - well now it has been used 3 times. Once by myself and........?
 
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JayUtah said:
You're claiming, then, that you went to a different source that contained the edited quotes, ran them through Google Translate, and then posted those results, instead of using the versions provided on the Heiwa website? If that's what you did, why are you praising Björkman for providing them? Aren't you praising him because that's where you got them?

And it's not the first time you've been caught trying to hide the Heiwa sources. When you copied Björkman's framing elements -- which occur only on his website, not in the original material -- you gave away that you're mining Heiwa for quotes and pretending to use primary material.
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What? Heiwa's piece is in English (or it could be auto translate, as I do for Swedish). So what was reproduced here was exactly as was there.

As I have said twice now. The digital newspaper library shows exactly the same style of ellipses, so that is where he got it from
 
Vixen said:
The other post I deleted was a reply to a poster but then I noticed they had called me a moron.
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Link to it.

Please show me the Rome post you claim I deleted.
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I quoted it. You quoted an entire post describing the difference between what Sweden did and what enforced disappearance means, and said "Sweden admitted to it." And now you're trying to weasel out of it.
 
Vixen said:
What?
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It sounded like you were trying to claim you didn't use Heiwa as your source for the Aftonbladet articles. You said you had Google Translate and access to other sources of the articles in Swedish.

As I have said twice now. The digital newspaper library shows exactly the same style of ellipses, so that is where he got it from
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You got it from the Heiwa website, not from some other source as you previously insinuated. So the claim that you're not relying upon Anders Björkman is entirely false.
 
Jukkelus said:
:jaw-dropp The Finnish countryside is dying out and the people are moving into the few bigger cities that experience economic and population growth. The young people from countryside move for their tertiary education and stay for the jobs. As a result, the growing cities are continuously expanding. The easiest place to build is the farmland around the cities. If you would actually visit for example Greater Helsinki Area you would see a lot of disticts built on former fields without any rocky formations in sight.

There is so much wooded uninhabitated area, Finland isn't running out of farmland anytime soon.
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That might be true for Helsinki but our land is designated farmland, in a very fertile region. Only the land designated non-agricultural can be built on.

Yes, there was a great exodus to the towns and cities and our old farm houses are used as summer cottages.

If something is built on a former field, then of course there will not be rocks, because our ancestors already cleared it.
 
Vixen said:
No, you are not getting it. If they were 'just jerks with a dangerous ideology', as registered and approved asylum seekers who made their applications in the proper way and were awaiting process they are entitled to received due legal process [a hearing] and to be in contact with their lawyers and family.
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Nobody cares.

This has NOTHING to do with Estonia's bow visor getting knocked off in rough seas.

Neither man died, both received $500,000 in compensation from Sweden. Case is closed.
 
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