Belz...
Fiend God
Iacchus said:
It's my understanding that no view DEPENDS on circular reasoning. It's just you, here.
I choose to follow evidence, not my whimsical dreams. One is more reliable than the other, and it's not the one YOU think.
It is not based upon consciousness, but upon your assumption that this consciousness means more than it seems.
Y'know, maybe you should watch the videos. There is more known about consciousness, Iacchus, than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
Belz...
Fiend God
Exactly how does consciousness "transcend" the temporal ?
It's very simple, really.
1) Assume, axiomatically, that consciousness existed "before the big bang". (It does not matter that the phrase is meaningless--this is an axiomatic assumption, after all!)
2) How is it that consciousness could possibly exist "before" there was time itself, before even "before" can exist?
3) Obviously, it must transcend the temporal.
4) Break for lunch.
Yes, "I" am the thinker, who thinks inside my head. There's no escaping that fact.
And how do you know this? Or, are you prepared to discount the most important factor of all?
And why shouldn't consciousness be the basis of all meaning?
Yes, I agree, it is entirely meaningless within the parmeters of that which is temporal. However, that does not mean it must transcend the temporal if, in fact it doesn't.
Belz...
Fiend God
You like to put your own meaning into something and then confirm it when, in fact, the original post does not support your position. This is dishonest at best.
The most important factor of all is our ability to TEST a theory and apply it -- or at the very least to make objective sense of it. Your theory does not make sense and presupposes something that every shred of evidence we have contradicts.
Because your wishes are NOT horses, Iacchus. Neither are they dolphins.
Translation: Iacchus's theory contradicts everything we currently believe to be true about time. Therefore, everything we know about time must be wrong.
At least you recognise that it is entirely meaningless under our current knowledge base. That's a start.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
No it isn't. Many of us have read a great deal of material that we now find arguable. For example, I have read the entire Bible (not that I remember it all now),but I read even the begats and stuff. I read a lot of Kant too, once. forgot most of that too. I still think Kant was a pissant, etc. etc. and the bible is mostly fiction, but I didn't just say "I already know everything I need to know" and stop there.
edit: I should also add that I have also read a good part of your drivel, Dennis!
Last edited:
This in fact has always been my contention. Yet the only element that I'm adding here is Eternity.
How so?
Says who? Those who design and run the tests? Why is it so important to them?
I am perfectly capable of observing that "I" exist, as well as those things that exist around me. Is the table capable of observing that it exists, in relation to the chairs that sit around it?
Belz...
Fiend God
If you are wondering why knowing the truth is important, then nothing you can ever say could possibly have meaning.
Otherwise, what can you mean ? If one has a correct theory, it stands to reason that evidence will agree with him.
That, again, has NO relation with anything I've said. I said your wishes are NOT horses. Your mind does NOT create reality. You have purposely warped your own sense of worth for reasons unknown. I don't "feel" that my "mind" is distinct from the universe "I" observe.
Iacchus said:
No such thing.
However, I see nothing but human agency here, telling us what is and should not be.
There can be no such thing as science without one who observes it.
You are quite simply wrong.
As long as you are human, you cannot know this.
If I am capable of standing outside of time and space, as I suggest consciousness does, yes I can.
Belz...
Fiend God
Iacchus said:
That's just stupid, now. Everything YOU claim comes from a human, too, Iacchus.
You have been demontrated how patently false this is, numerous times and in several different ways. That point is moot.
Please mention ONE, only ONE known example of an infinity. If you cannot provide one, then you cannot claim, honestly, that I am wrong.
That's a big if.
"Suggest"?
Ok.
Go look at the videos, and maybe you can start to evaluate your suggestion. Or at the very least, you can collect the names of the top consciousness people, so you can send your suggestions to them.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Does your consciousness lack duration, then? Please explain in coherent sentences using words with a generally agreed vernacular meaning, how consciousness occurs independently of time.