So-called "Spirit Boxes"

[Sabrina]

For reference, I watch the show "Ghost Adventures" quite often. Not because I actually believe these guys are finding legit evidence of spirits, but more because I get such a kick out of their reactions to things (seriously, they're like those lame attempts at horror films where the actors are trying so hard to appear scared or shocked or what have you; it's just WAY over the top). I don't personally believe in ghosts, but these guys give me a giggle every time I watch. Sue me; I watch bad movies for the fun of it, remember.

However, I was curious about one piece of equipment the show uses; the so-called "Spirit Box", which is a device that rapidly scans radio frequencies (several frequencies per second, if the show is to be believed), and the belief is that the "spirits" can use the resulting white noise to answer questions or say things. I'm not going to get into the validity of what these guys are hearing in the moment (especially because I will often listen to the audio with my eyes closed and I usually don't hear what they hear when I do so), but I am curious how you can occasionally hear several words overlaid on the white noise that APPEAR to be strung into a semi-coherent sentence (although again, I don't usually hear the exact same thing these guys are hearing in the moment) from someone in what appears to be the same voice. If the device is actually scanning multiple radio frequencies per second (I don't know the exact rate, but just for the purposes of debate let's say it scans fifteen radio frequencies per second), how does a short sentence in the same voice (usually four to seven words) get strung over anywhere from fifteen to thirty radio frequencies? (I don't believe, although I've never actually timed it, that the sentences are much more than two seconds or so long in the show).

I read something somewhere that says a normal human can say about six syllables a second (ten syllables a second is considered the most a normal human can comprehend, although there may be some evidence indicating a blind person can understand up to nineteen). Four to seven words, depending on the words of course, are usually more than six syllables and are sometimes more than ten. I'm just curious, because apparently my Google-fu is weak and I can't find any real scientific studies on the matter, has there been any valid investigation into the sounds that our brains interpret as words coming from a "Spirit box" and whether it actually provides any legitimate method of obtaining actual voices? Mind you, even if there is any legitimacy behind the technology, I'd still be skeptical that it's a "ghost" actually responding; I think it's far more likely that snippets of words from various broadcasts are actually just being recognized as a word or two by our brains, which are designed to look for those sorts of patterns. Doesn't change my curiosity into whether the device itself has any legitimate scientific application. Anyone here ever looked into them?

 

[kali1137]

Is this a new tool they are using now? I ask because I am not familiar with it and will now have to google a bit. Granted I don't really watch those shows anymore so I may just be behind the woo times.

 

[Scorpion]

I attended a lecture by a professor Bander in the 1970's and he said anyone can record spirits with an ordinary tape recorder. he demonstrated what he claimed were spirit voices on a tape recorder. Evidentially a tape can pick up spirit voices that cannot be heard until you play back the tape.

 

[Worm]

My recollection from a long time ago is that a similar box was found to generate white noise, but overlaid with short snippets from actual AM transmissions, heavily distorted to make them fit in more. Without knowing exactly what the box is doing, I guess it's hard to know.

 

[The Sparrow]

They use that on "Knock Knock Ghost". The somewhat skeptical and funny host calls it "the broken radio".

 

[Mojo]

Search The forum for “EVP”.

 

[The Sparrow]

I attended a lecture by a professor Bander in the 1970's and he said anyone can record spirits with an ordinary tape recorder.

No they can't.

he demonstrated what he claimed were spirit voices on a tape recorder.

"Claimed" being the operative word.

Evidentially a tape can pick up spirit voices

No it cant.

that cannot be heard until you play back the tape.

Bull.

 

[ahhell]

I attended a lecture by a professor Bander in the 1970's and he said anyone can record spirits with an ordinary tape recorder. he demonstrated what he claimed were spirit voices on a tape recorder. Evidentially a tape can pick up spirit voices that cannot be heard until you play back the tape.

I think this is basically the same thing as the spirit box. Audio pareidolia in white noise.


I used to listen to Coast to Coast AM, a rather famous late night radio show about ghosts, demons, aliens, psychics and pretty much every form of woo out there. They had a few regular guests that would play tape recordings of ghosts. Less convincing than playing records backward.

 

[Bikewer]

I recall the nonsense from the 70s... People were letting tape recorders run, or just tuning radios “between” stations and recording the static for hours.. Then listening intently for those “spirit voices”.
Claims at the time (from “psychics”, naturally) were that thousands of spirits were trying to be heard in this way.
Naturally, much as with “backwards masking” some folks actually claimed to be able to hear voices or word amid the noise. A combination of paradolia and wishful thinking, I imagine.

With what we’d imagine to be literally billions of disembodied “spirits” floating around in spirit-land, wouldn’t you think some of them would have found a more-efficient means of communication by now, and more importantly, something interesting to say?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Remember the long-running thread about "clear" recordings of spirit voices which turned out to be so unclear that nobody heard the same words unless prompted, and the video with a background recording of a radio commercial in which Casey Kasem either made blood-curdling threats against the life of the OP or merely advertised a Florida record store, depending on whether you heard what the OP insisted she heard or heard what literally everyone else heard?

 

[Sabrina]

Search The forum for “EVP”.

Technically these are not EVPs as I understand them; instead of using a recorder to ask questions and see if you can hear something in the silence (Within the sound.... of silence ), you basically play what amounts to white noise and listen for words within the noise in the moment.

Part of my issue with this is that when you're talking about radio frequencies, while you may not be in immediate range of whatever station uses the frequency, I would still think that a random signal boost might get enough power to allow for a split-second burst of a transmission to make it through, thus making it appear as if something "spoke" on what was supposed to be dead air.

I listen to white noise to help me sleep; I've never once heard any voices come through on it, so I have to wonder if what these guys are using is truly white noise as we understand it. To be fair, my version of white noise is actually the sound of a stream rushing in a streambed, but I can still hear the occasional strange sound in the noise that doesn't seem like it would be something found in nature (a beeping sound sometimes comes through, for instance, but I don't think it's a ghost driving a spectral car; it's more likely just my brain trying to interpret whatever the sound is as the closest approximation I have experience of).

 

[Sabrina]

Is this a new tool they are using now? I ask because I am not familiar with it and will now have to google a bit. Granted I don't really watch those shows anymore so I may just be behind the woo times.

As I understand it yes; it's a relatively recent innovation in "ghost hunting". I'm just curious as to the science behind it, and as I said, my Google-fu seems to be lacking, because I can't find any legitimate studies on it. There was a possible study on it, but given the small sample size overall I'd be hesitant to point to it as anything definitive or even semi-legitimate.

 

[bluesjnr]

Remember the long-running thread about "clear" recordings of spirit voices which turned out to be so unclear that nobody heard the same words unless prompted, and the video with a background recording of a radio commercial in which Casey Kasem either made blood-curdling threats against the life of the OP or merely advertised a Florida record store, depending on whether you heard what the OP insisted she heard or heard what literally everyone else heard?

Here you go. I keep it in my subscribed folder.

For those who haven't seen these threads, give yourself at least a week to get through all 200 pages or 7955 posts.

Sad case of a woman, completely beyond help, but fascinating nonetheless.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259768

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292580&page=34

 

[theprestige]

However, I was curious about one piece of equipment the show uses; the so-called "Spirit Box", which is a device that rapidly scans radio frequencies (several frequencies per second, if the show is to be believed), and the belief is that the "spirits" can use the resulting white noise to answer questions or say things. I'm not going to get into the validity of what these guys are hearing in the moment (especially because I will often listen to the audio with my eyes closed and I usually don't hear what they hear when I do so), but I am curious how you can occasionally hear several words overlaid on the white noise that APPEAR to be strung into a semi-coherent sentence (although again, I don't usually hear the exact same thing these guys are hearing in the moment) from someone in what appears to be the same voice. If the device is actually scanning multiple radio frequencies per second (I don't know the exact rate, but just for the purposes of debate let's say it scans fifteen radio frequencies per second), how does a short sentence in the same voice (usually four to seven words) get strung over anywhere from fifteen to thirty radio frequencies? (I don't believe, although I've never actually timed it, that the sentences are much more than two seconds or so long in the show).

[...]

Doesn't change my curiosity into whether the device itself has any legitimate scientific application. Anyone here ever looked into them?

It's interesting that even avowed skeptics can encouraged to adopt woo modes of thought. You inquire into the details of how the device functions, but you're letting them beg the question that the device actually exists as claimed.

Remember, they're not conducting a scientific inquiry, they're selling an entertainment. They don't actually need a channel-hopping radio scanner that produces unexplained audio that must then be investigated.

What they need - and probably what they have, this being the simplest explanation - is a prop that helps them tell a story about ghosts in the radio waves. It's probably just a simple audio playback device, playing a pre-recorded "EVP" track. Probably the only radio involved is the bluetooth on the MP3 player inside the box.

Talking about the science of radio is letting them beg too many questions unchallenged.

Here's a question: Did they buy their device off the shelf, or build it themselves? If they bought it off the shelf, you should be able to find the make and model, and inquire with the manufacturer about the technical details.

If they built it themselves, then you're back to square one, with a pile of begged questions and a prop for telling ghost stories. You might as well inquire into the science of the phaser Captain Kirk uses sometimes to stun and sometimes to kill.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

It scans many frequencies including but not limited to radio and walkie talkies. Any words you hear are that.

Related: https://youtu.be/L1odBQxgrss

 

[theprestige]

It scans many frequencies including but not limited to radio and walkie talkies. Any words you hear are that.

Related: https://youtu.be/L1odBQxgrss

yt;dw

Does it answer the "off the shelf vs home-built" question?

 

[Armitage72]

When I was a kid, I remember occasionally hearing faint voices coming out of a radio-controlled car I had. The receiver in the car was able to pick up CB or radio signals and something in the mechanism was able to generate the corresponding sound.

 

[Elagabalus]

This is why I sometimes curse the ISF! I watch a few Photography channels on Youtube and one channel that I visit (occasionally) is Steve Huff Photography. He reviews the latest and greatest in camera gear and has a particular penchant for Leica. Anyway, last year after dealing with some Flat Earthers in the conspiracy section and clicking on some of their links to youtube I started getting some woo related recommends in my YT "you might like" feed. One of them was a site named Huff Paranormal. "Was this the same Huff of Steve Huff Photography," I wondered?
Yes it was. I'll never trust his camera reviews again.

Apparently, his paranormal site has been up since 2015 and until last year I was blissfully unaware of its existence even though they are somewhat linked by his name. Thank you, ISF!

What were we talking about again? Oh, yes, spirit boxes:

http://huffparanormal.com/2018/07/the-best-ghost-box-for-beginners-and-a-demo-using-it/

Apparently, you can get an App, as well.

ETA: He used to sell rather expensive boxes he made himself . IIRC, there's a video tear down of it somewhere on the internet. I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[SOdhner]

the belief is that the "spirits" can use the resulting white noise to answer questions or say things.

Evidentially a tape can pick up spirit voices that cannot be heard until you play back the tape.

My favorite thing about ghost claims is that people assign these abilities without putting any thought into it. They "use" the white noise? How? Are they adjusting the sound as it comes out of the speakers? That sounds harder than just talking. When they record themelves onto a tape, it can't just be that the sound is quiet or we could hear it normally. So they're... what? Imprinting on the magnetic tape? In a format that's actually readable by the tape player?

 

[Cat Not Included]

I'd also lean to the "See if you can verify if it even works at all and isn't just a prop before worrying too much about how it works", but I'd also like to note that various radio/transmitting wires can easily pick up strong broadcasts from nearby even if they aren't intended to.

Just the other day a computer in our house suddenly starting talking in short bursts; after a bit of puzzlement we figured out that we were hearing the radios the construction crews outside were using, being picked up by the speaker wire and output through the speakers.