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Is it Fair to trick an Orangutan?

OK so back to what we actually observe.

The orangutan is very interested in the cup and the fruit. You can see that by her intense eye contact. What your eyes are tracking is an established measure for determining what an animal is paying attention to.

We know from other research that great apes understand an object still exists when it is out of sight.

When she observes the empty cup, she hesitates a second.

She laughs (again, it is well documented that when a great ape looks like she's laughing, she is - see the links in the LMGTFY link above).

She appears to have found the fact the fruit was in the cup, then wasn't in the cup to be very funny.

Why she thought it was funny is only open to speculation.

Finally, the video is adorable. :D And now the link says it's a private video. :(

But you can see it here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/dec/09/orangutan-magic-trick-funny-video
 
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Yup that is about it. Now .. makes me wonder, what she find funny? If the trick or the magic.
 
I see no reason to assume that apes cannot react to magic tricks. It's not the only example:



People have even done magic for dogs:

 
Jules Galen said:
Here's a guy doing magic tricks for three different chimps using an Ipad, but the Chimps don't seem to get that anything at all that's happening is so bizzarre.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/feb/15/chimps-amazed-ipad-magic-tricks-video
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In the previous video it could be a case of the monkey having an understanding of continuity and reacting.

In the ipad one it's far too complex and all the monkey really knows is food is suddenly showing up from a weird box and thus no reaction.


Uneducated guess in all this.

I hear ravens get annoyed when you show them vanishing coin routines
 
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I haven't read the whole thread but have seen the video...has anyone observed that the Orangutan may have been laughing at the obviously poor quality of sleight of hand in which the human was using in the attempt to trick it?

It seems the reaction fits that conclusion. There appears to be no reaction of wonder and surprise...just hilarity.
 
Is it Fair to trick an Orangutan?

Sure, as long as the Orangutan can pay what the lady charges!!!!!
 
Hopeful Parallel said:
I don't think, orangutans can understand the way we do, so tricks might mean nothing to them.
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The trick obviously meant something to this particular orangutan...I just think perhaps humans might be interpreting the response incorrectly. We are observing the same thing, but can come to more than one conclusion about that observation.

Ordinarily a successful trick is responded to with wonder and awe...not the response the orangutan gave in the video.

eta

this here is a far better illusion and absent is any sign of hilarity.
 
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marplots said:
That's because it's only an illusion from the camera's point of view, not the orangutan's.
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I don't get it. I mean, as a human.

The magician holds the card up to the glass and it "travels" through to the other side. Is that the "magic" trick? Okay, I have no way to know how that's done, and it matters. Did the trick appear the same to the orangutan? Did something need done off camera that the orang could see but I couldn't? I have no idea. So I can't judge what the orang's reaction should be because I have no idea what he saw.

In the other magic tricks, I can guess that the orang saw pretty much the same thing I did, so it doesn't matter how it was done. I can guess what an animal/person's typical reaction would be.
 
Pup said:
I don't get it. I mean, as a human.

The magician holds the card up to the glass and it "travels" through to the other side. Is that the "magic" trick? Okay, I have no way to know how that's done, and it matters. Did the trick appear the same to the orangutan? Did something need done off camera that the orang could see but I couldn't? I have no idea. So I can't judge what the orang's reaction should be because I have no idea what he saw.

In the other magic tricks, I can guess that the orang saw pretty much the same thing I did, so it doesn't matter how it was done. I can guess what an animal/person's typical reaction would be.
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Definitely not.
 
marplots said:
Definitely not.
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Not sure what the rules are anymore. Under these circumstances, can someone describe how a magic trick is done? Otherwise, there's no way to move forward with the discussion about the orangutan's behavior, because there's no way to know what he/she saw.
 
Pup said:
Not sure what the rules are anymore. Under these circumstances, can someone describe how a magic trick is done? Otherwise, there's no way to move forward with the discussion about the orangutan's behavior, because there's no way to know what he/she saw.
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The video would have to be examined to see if can be observed where the camera has been turned off so that someone can go into the compound and stick the card to the inside of the glass...the clues would have to be found in any small indiscretions in the movements of the magician and the orangutan's and these SHOULD be noticeable IF the trick is to be explained in that way.

If not, then it was done some other way.
 
marplots said:
That's because it's only an illusion from the camera's point of view, not the orangutan's.
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So in saying that are you arguing that the first video shows the orangutan laughing because the poorly done illusion was funny or because it fell for the trick?
 
Navigator said:
So in saying that are you arguing that the first video shows the orangutan laughing because the poorly done illusion was funny or because it fell for the trick?
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I don't know the inner mental workings of orangutans. However, comparing the two tricks on the basis of both being illusions ought to require a view where they appear "magical" - wouldn't it? We aren't surprised when the orangutan doesn't react to the person having hands, or any of a thousand ordinary events.

It's further muddled because - even among humans - tricks don't always generate the same response in all viewers. Some are too complicated to follow easily and, like an over-complex joke, aren't understood well enough to elicit the surprise response. Other times a spectators attention may wander and spoil the moment. You aren't going to be awed by a coin which disappears when you didn't see it in the hand in the first place.

But anyhow, perspective and available knowledge does matter. Magicians have even exploited this with a principle called "dual reality."
 
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