• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Zero tolerance...dress code

tamiO said:
Tony

Children and their parents need to know that they have rights and should contact lawyers. It is very weird that parents and children allow the schools to violate their rights and just shrug their shoulders.

The apathy just galls me, its as if parents and children brought up in the public school system are brainwashed.

A young friend of mine was recently in a fight at school. The boys are 11 years old. The fight was over and both boys had gone their seperate ways. Someone reported the fight and the boys were called into the office. They were both handcuffed and given the "scare tactic" cops love to give potential juvenile delinquents. Threats of the diversion center were made.

The boys were both suspended for a week. The difference between me and my young friend's family? I would have had my lawyer crawling up their asses. His father gave him a good whipping for causing such trouble for him.

:mad:
Click to expand...


Your story is not unique.

I experienced a similar "scare tactic" employed by the cops when I was in High school.

Children, and teenagers are the most oppressed citizens in America today. I, for one, am pissed off about it.
 
Occasional Chemist said:


They seem to have opinions on those issues:

here

and

here
Click to expand...


Thanks.


Once when I was in Jr. High, the school janitor (yeah, the freekin janitor, ya know, the guy who cleans the toilets?) told me to go to the office and change the shirt I was wearing. The reason? Because my shirt featured a picture of Marvin the Martian holding a ray gun. The PC brainwashed janitor said that because Marvin the Martian was holding a "gun", I needed to change my shirt. I basically told the guy to go to hell.
 
We deal with these issues all the time. My school district despises me. (Why should they be different?)
I mortify my daughter constantly because I am unwilling to just let things slide.
Once, my daughter was involved in a situation in which a boy was stealing jewelry from his mother and distributing it to girls he liked at school.
She was dragged out of class, hauled down to the office, handcuffed, and questioned by the principal, the boy's mother, and the police. No one bothered to contact me. I found out about it from my daughter when she got home from school.
I've never been so mad!!!
Put a 10 year old child in handcuffs to scare them? Question them about an alleged crime without my being present? Involve the police in a situation involving minors without even an attempt to contact their parents?
That principal had scorch marks on his face by the time I was done. We ended up with a written letter of apology, and the principal apologized to my daughter in front of the class she was pulled out of.

Zero tolerance has done away with rational thought and the progression of consequences. Remember being in school? It used to be 1st offence = detention, 2nd offence = maybe in school suspension, THEN suspension was considered for a 3rd offence.
But with zero tolerance, there are no minor offences. A principal justified policies like this to me by stating "Well, it works! Students get to class on time when they know they'll be suspended for being late 3 times in one year." (Actual tardy policy at the high school here)
I told him that lopping their heads off would WORK, but might be a bit severe for the infraction, just like suspension is. Our students no longer have lockers, for fear of bombs, drugs and weapons. Our students cannot bring knapsacks to school to hold their books, because they could also hide weapons. They cannot wear certain clothing because teachers fear the students may be emulating or promoting “gang culture”.

I believe that for the most part, children will rise to your level of expectation. If you treat them like criminals …

Whomp!
 
Whomp said:
We deal with these issues all the time. My school district despises me. (Why should they be different?)
I mortify my daughter constantly because I am unwilling to just let things slide.
Once, my daughter was involved in a situation in which a boy was stealing jewelry from his mother and distributing it to girls he liked at school.
She was dragged out of class, hauled down to the office, handcuffed, and questioned by the principal, the boy's mother, and the police. No one bothered to contact me. I found out about it from my daughter when she got home from school.
I've never been so mad!!!
Click to expand...


Thats left-wing tyranny for you.

Don't you know whomp, they know whats best for your children, not you. How dare you question their authority. :mad:
 
Geeez! What was I thinking!?!

I'm gonna have to run down and beg forgiveness right away!
Maybe they have some children I can beat ... um ... I mean administer corporeal punishment to ... as a penance.
 
Well, I've never been one to bow down to authrority of "this kind". I would never allow myself to give in to a dress code (I'm a teen rebel alright :rolleyes:...). Hell yeah, I'm going to wear a black hoodie, extremely baggy pants, and keep my shirt untucked just like I always do... then I'll get expelled.

My school has a policy where 10 (that number is only a guess) suspensions in whatever given time = Recommendation for Expulsion.

One word sums up this Zero Tolerance dress code: STUPID!
 
Tony said:
Thats left-wing tyranny for you.

Don't you know whomp, they know whats best for your children, not you. How dare you question their authority. :mad:
Click to expand...
It all makes sense now! Hagelluya!

I'm not only going to dryclean my drycleanables, I'm going to iron my socks and show off my classiness by struttin' with a cane (sans cane, its a weapon) like I own the place because I'm happy to be in school now that I've figured it out!.
 
So much ANGST over what people WEAR, for goodness sake! Since when did school get to be a fashion parade? It's for LEARNING in!!!

Build a bridge and get OVER it, people...
 
um, zep?
I am neither anxious nor aprehensive about what my daughter wears.
Angst?
You are right, however, in that she is there to learn.
So what possible difference could it make what she wears while she's doing it?
 
Eeee, you young 'uns don't know your born! Let me tell you, when I were a lad...................
Actually things are a lot more relaxed than when I went to school. We had to wear white shirt, school tie, school blazer and (deeply mortified sigh) grey SHORTS until we were 13. Oh, and a peaked cap until we were 15. If you were seen out of school at lunchtime and weren't in full uniform - immediate detention. And this was a state school. Other punishments included Saturday morning detention, impositions (a two page essay on things like "A Feather" or "The Inside of a Ping-Pong Ball") or the cane. Bloody hell, that hurt!
The best days of my life!
 
I hated the mandatory school uniform when I was a kid. It consisted of dark-colored tennis shoes (any brand would do), a pair of black or blue jeans and a T-Shirt with the school logo.

But nowadays I think to myself - uniforms serve two good purposes: one, they are cheaper for parents and two, it diminishes the competition for "better" or more fashionable clothes. For example, my private school offered many grants for poorer kids, and how could they possibly keep up regarding clothing choices if not for the uniform? Yep, students could express their individuality, but not much. Therefore, even the cliques were somehow less defined. There could be no goths or hippies or whatever. A goth makeup over jeans would be ridiculous. If a kid wants to wear that, it won't be at school.

There's already so much competition in this world, I don't think that adding "clothing" to this is healthy in any way. It only helps to form another generation of avid consumers. Make-up, in a school??? Unheard of. I remember seeing a Seventeen magazine which give tips on make-up kits girls should keep at lockers, and Iwas flabbergasted. We never had lockers, an make-up kits?? Lipstick, at best.

Uniform was mandatory. If we didn't comply, the school would send a letter to parents. That was enough in 99% of the cases. If that wasn't enough, then the kid wouldn't be allowed to enter the school unless in uniform, and the parents would be notified by letter and phone call. More than once I had to go home and change, and only then I could enter the school. That's because I wore a sweater without the school T-shirt under. But it was never a big deal.
 
here's a real school this was dress down day....heheheheheheh

that's Kitten in the red, when she was just a baby....
 
Boo said:
um, zep?
I am neither anxious nor aprehensive about what my daughter wears.
Angst?
You are right, however, in that she is there to learn.
So what possible difference could it make what she wears while she's doing it?
Click to expand...
Theoretically, I agree. And would that children, especially girls, have an adult's disregard for clothing appropriateness versus the situation. That is, that it would make no difference what they wear at school.

HOWEVER, teenagers ARE usually going through that stage of personal identification, that process of defining themselves in the world, and dress is a very important part of that process. And in a school situation they are being allowed to see this as being more important than the reason they are ACTUALLY there for - learning. That is why I defined it previously as a "fashion parade" - they get more intent on social identification and "dressing cool" and "lookin' good" than learning.

There's plenty of time for fashion OUTSIDE of school, I feel. Inside school, like the army in a way (and I am only applying this to fashion, not anything else!), if they all look similar by having to wear the same uniform then they can forget about the fashion diversion and concentrate on the other, more important stuff.

Or perhaps I'm just a fuddy ol' duddy!!! :)
 
Zep said:

There's plenty of time for fashion OUTSIDE of school, I feel. Inside school, like the army in a way (and I am only applying this to fashion, not anything else!), if they all look similar by having to wear the same uniform then they can forget about the fashion diversion and concentrate on the other, more important stuff.

Or perhaps I'm just a fuddy ol' duddy!!! :)
Click to expand...

The problem of fashion does not go away once uniforms are introduced. One kid will find a way of wearing part of the uniform in a unique way and that will become cool or they will concentrate entirely on having the cool shoes or the cool hair style. Earrings become extremely important at uniform schools. Worse, they will pick on the kid who does something slightly nonconformist. You cannot get kids to disregard fashion. They are hard wired for it. Think about all the different trends they start which have nothing to do with clothes. There are cool foods, cool drinks, cool bags, cool cars, cool book covers, cool locker accessories, cool toys, even cool ways of carrying books to class. Uniforms may serve a purpose but they do not do away with the fashion diversion.

I actually believe that the school uniform simply teaches them to conform. School uniforms prepare kids at an early age to judge people by their clothes. The message is, "proper people wear what they are expected to wear and those who refuse to conform are not to be trusted." Thus, they can easily transition to their adult uniform which is determined by their jobs. There are uniforms for most jobs including those that appear not to have one. Lawyers and bankers certainly wear one. I am troubled by the notion that clothing is more important than the indvidual inside it. I think that uniforms reenforce that notion though that is the opposite of their stated purpose.

Adults judge kids by their clothes. What is the message recieved from an Eton jacket or a Harvard tie? The original purpose of school uniforms was, in part at least, to let everyone who saw your kid know that he was one of the elite. That he was better than other kids.

I agree that uniforms have some advantages such as evening things out for poorer students and yet, as I pointed out, kids find other details on which to concentrate.

"Isn't it bad enough we try to make these kids all think alike? Now we gotta make 'em all look alike too?"
-George Carlin

Glory
 
Glory said:

The problem of fashion does not go away once uniforms are introduced. One kid will find a way of wearing part of the uniform in a unique way and that will become cool or they will concentrate entirely on having the cool shoes or the cool hair style. Earrings become extremely important at uniform schools. Worse, they will pick on the kid who does something slightly nonconformist. You cannot get kids to disregard fashion. They are hard wired for it. Think about all the different trends they start which have nothing to do with clothes. There are cool foods, cool drinks, cool bags, cool cars, cool book covers, cool locker accessories, cool toys, even cool ways of carrying books to class. Uniforms may serve a purpose but they do not do away with the fashion diversion.
Click to expand...


They don't go away, Glory, but I'm sure they diminish the intensity of this pressure. Because if you wear the uniform ONLY, you're not in the wrong, whereas a kid with a poor fashion taste can cause a disaster of big proportions if left to choose his outfit. A poor kid can "get away" with being poor if he's wearing a uniform.

The possibilities of picking on somebody because of their choice of clothes is immense. It is, in my opinion, another source of stress. It's when you're a troubled teen and you wake up already worrying what you should wear, because if you don't, they will pick on you. With a uniform, that issue is settled already.

I actually believe that the school uniform simply teaches them to conform. School uniforms prepare kids at an early age to judge people by their clothes. The message is, "proper people wear what they are expected to wear and those who refuse to conform are not to be trusted."
Click to expand...

Even if that's the case, I still think that the benefits outweigh the problems. There's never a 100% perfect solution anyway.

I HATED my uniform when I was a teen. But I also concede that, if not for that, my parents and other kid's would have had to spend MORE money on clothing. More visits to the mall, more incentive to consumerism. I don't think we need any more of that.
 
Wow, after reading this thread I love my school a whole lot more!

At my public high school, which is mostly suburbanite (as suburban as one can get in a city of 200,000) , we have a very, very lenient dress code policy. Rather than 'approved' clothing, we have a short list of forbidden clothing. This includes:

-Profanity on clothing
-Drug references on clothing (not enforced)
-Alcohol references on clothing (many beer companies give out t- shirts or hats in 18 packs of beer, but this policy is also rarely enforced)

and that's about it. The penalty for breaking any of these rules? Turning the shirt inside out and wearing it like that for the rest of the day. Untucked shirts, ragged jeans, mini-skirts (though rarely worn worn by girls, except on special occasions) and trenchcoats are all tolerated, as the principal has said she doesn't want to curb our individuality, only keep a friendly learning environment.

Our school has had only one major offence involving a student in recent memory. It involved a guy hiding in the girl's washrooms and spying on them wearing a balaclava.

I cannot imagine a school with a dress code such as the ones mentioned. I know a bunch of people that would just go insane being made to conform to what was decided by some adults at the school board.

And people wonder why Canada has a much better school system than the US, where we are obviously much more lenient on rules, and where the teacher's main objective is to help the students LEARN, rather than force them to conform.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom