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zen

case#46cw39 said:
Final exam question at Bailin Temple (China):

The Buddha taught for 40 years and never said a word.

true or false? why?
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In any case, The Buddha "said" a number. 40! So, looking at the story of Buddha 40, we see that the Buddha doesn't need to say a word.

40. At Sarnath, when the five ascetics saw the Buddha coming, they decided not even to greet him or talk to him. They still thought that he was greedy and had given up his search for truth. But as he got closer, they realised that he was surrounded by a brilliant light and looked very noble. They were so astonished that they forgot about their previous decision. They greeted him, offered him some water and quickly prepared a seat.
 
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Limbo said:
In any case, The Buddha "said" a number. 40! So, looking at the story of Buddha 40, we see that the Buddha doesn't need to say a word.

40. At Sarnath, when the five ascetics saw the Buddha coming, they decided not even to greet him or talk to him. They still thought that he was greedy and had given up his search for truth. But as he got closer, they realised that he was surrounded by a brilliant light and looked very noble. They were so astonished that they forgot about their previous decision. They greeted him, offered him some water and quickly prepared a seat.
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They remained fools, all.
 
case#46cw39 said:
The Buddha taught for 40 years and never said a word.

true or false? why?
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Mu. He taught that people should not simply accept his words, but should make up their own minds.

Should they then follow his advice or not?
 
The Norseman said:
True. The tao that cannot be spoken is the true tao.
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HA! (Katz) Well put. As the old Zen adage says the finger that points to the moon can never be the moon, right?The Tao and Lao Tzu are still a big part of Chinese Zen (Chan) of Bailin Temple (original Zen). This Bailin Temple Zen is of the House of Lin Chi, the biggest bastard of Zen (along with his teacher). His main tool was the WHACK of the stick and shouts (Katz). He also used the crooked lines of the koan to destroy the student's leaning on reason and logic. There is a book called The Roaring Stream: A New Zen Reader that reviews the Five Houses of Chinese Zen and tells the old stories about the masters, that brings Zen to life. The public book that gets closest to expressing the spirit of Zen for me is Zen Buddhism Selected Writings by DT Suzuki.
 
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dlorde said:
Mu. He taught that people should not simply accept his words, but should make up their own minds.

Should they then follow his advice or not?
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I like that and agree completely. That's the impression one is left with. You have to believe based on facts before you. Of course, there is some woo that has crept into some Zen, so one has to separate the useful philosophy out of it all.

"Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom." D.T. Suzuki
 
Limbo said:
Is that as close as you have gotten to the experience of the spirit of Zen?
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Yeah, that book speaks to me, in conjunction with my Bailin Temple training and other reading. That's where I got the summary quote stated above:

"Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom." D.T. Suzuki

What book/school got you where you are? What is your summary quote defining Zen?
 
case#46cw39 said:
What book/school got you where you are?
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I've read too many books to pick just one, and I am not a member of a school.

What is your summary quote defining Zen?
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'All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, besides which nothing exists.' —Huang Po

I think that final exam questions at Temples are meant to test if one has actually TAPPED INTO the 'One Mind' as a mystical experience, not to test if one has read enough books to know which adage to say. Otherwise, what's the point? Buddha-hood or bust... :)
 
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case#46cw39 said:
HA! (Katz) Well put. As the old Zen adage says the finger that points to the moon can never be the moon, right?The Tao and Lao Tzu are still a big part of Chinese Zen (Chan) of Bailin Temple (original Zen). This Bailin Temple Zen is of the House of Lin Chi, the biggest bastard of Zen (along with his teacher). His main tool was the WHACK of the stick and shouts (Katz). He also used the crooked lines of the koan to destroy the student's leaning on reason and logic. There is a book called The Roaring Stream: A New Zen Reader that reviews the Five Houses of Chinese Zen and tells the old stories about the masters, that brings Zen to life. The public book that gets closest to expressing the spirit of Zen for me is Zen Buddhism Selected Writings by DT Suzuki.
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I have read DT Suzuki before but not enough times to really speak on the contents of his stuff. The Roaring Stream sounds like it'd be a good book for me to read. It's been quite a while since I have read or done much thinking regarding buddhism or zen.



case#46cw39 said:
What book/school got you where you are? What is your summary quote defining Zen?
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Ever since Limbo the self-proclaimed Christian mystic/comparative religionist got pwned last year here on the JREF showing how little he knew about zen and buddhism by people who actually have far more knowledge about it than he does, I'd take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
 
The Norseman said:
Ever since Limbo the self-proclaimed Christian mystic/comparative religionist got pwned last year here on the JREF showing how little he knew about zen and buddhism by people who actually have far more knowledge about it than he does, I'd take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
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I'd make that a kilo. After all, we are talking about a man who claims to have saved the Earth and danced on the dark side of the Moon.
 
I sat 2x35min this morning at 6.25 and 7.10.
At the same time sit 1 week people in Warsaw Zen Centre. What I am doing is called "heart retreat" which means I sit more during this week and possible at the same time as they do.

4.45 wake up
5 108 bows
5.30 chanting
6.25 2x35min sitting
8 breakfast
8.50 zen work
10.30 3x35min
1 lunch
2.30 3x35 min sitting
5 dinner
6.30 chanting
7.25 3x30 sitting
10 sleep
 
nowornever said:
I sat 2x35min this morning at 6.25 and 7.10.
At the same time sit 1 week people in Warsaw Zen Centre. What I am doing is called "heart retreat" which means I sit more during this week and possible at the same time as they do.

4.45 wake up
5 108 bows
5.30 chanting
6.25 2x35min sitting
8 breakfast
8.50 zen work
10.30 3x35min
1 lunch
2.30 3x35 min sitting
5 dinner
6.30 chanting
7.25 3x30 sitting
10 sleep
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Matt 6:5
And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



 
Zen disciplines appear to be based on the belief that the only way to escape a false path is to wear it out.

Well, that might be true, for some.

Myriad
 
The three Essentials of Zen were expressed in the writings of Zen master Bodhidharma as: "Not thinking about anything is Zen." "Seeing your nature is Zen." "Everything you do is Zen."
 
case#46cw39 said:
The three Essentials of Zen were expressed in the writings of Zen master Bodhidharma as: "Not thinking about anything is Zen." "Seeing your nature is Zen." "Everything you do is Zen."
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nowornever said:
"If something works, that is zen" Zen Sensei
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Well, maybe. The problem as I see it then arises that if zen is defined thusly, it (like most definitions of a god) is defined out of any meaningfulness.
 
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