YELLOW BAMBOO TEST!!!

Before we even consider the Perth test, we should examine the "Joko" test.

I'll state the facts again.

1. Randi cut off communication with YB
2. "Joko" contacts Randi, claiming to be qualified to test YB.
3. "Joko" procedes with the test but does so poorly because he: a. didn't do the test during the day. b. didn't video tape the entire test and c. was asked to only "tap" the man with the stick, but instead was clearly trying to strike him with it.
4. (And most suspiciously) "Joko" is wearing the same uniform as that of a YB practicioner.

So looking over the above facts, if I had to guess what has happened, I would say this. YB wanted to be tested, and when Randi cut off communication with them, they had one of their own (yellow shirt wearing "Joko") contact Randi pretending to be a skeptic interested in testing the YB claim.

The only reason I can imagine "Joko" would be so stupid as to leave his yellow shirt on is because he is that stupid.

If anyone has verifiable evidence that proofs me wrong, do pipe up.

If I am correct and "Joko" was a YB plant, then they are being dishonest, and should not be trusted for any further testing--making whether or not the Perth test was claimed as a JREF test is irrelivant.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
If anyone has verifiable evidence that proofs me wrong, do pipe up.

If I am correct and "Joko" was a YB plant, then they are being dishonest, and should not be trusted for any further testing--making whether or not the Perth test was claimed as a JREF test is irrelivant.
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It's a moot point. Even if Joko was not a plant, the test was performed unsatisfactorily. I doubt anybody can argue otherwise.

Since it's a moot point, I'm more than willing to go with Randi's opinions on the matter.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:

The only reason I can imagine "Joko" would be so stupid as to leave his yellow shirt on is because he is that stupid.
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Actually, I believe it was discussed at the time, even before the test: The YB demanded that Joko enrolled in their organisation, but they allowed it to be in a symbolic way where he only put on their shirt.

Has anybody heard anything from Joko since? It would have been interesting to hear his version of the events after some time has passed. Maybe he became a YB convert?
 
steenkh said:
Actually, I believe it was discussed at the time, even before the test: The YB demanded that Joko enrolled in their organisation, but they allowed it to be in a symbolic way where he only put on their shirt.
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It was pretty clear, too, from the bright/contrast adjusted footage that Joko Tri had come under improper contact by one of the group of YBers who insisted upon running around him during the test.

The only real question was the exact nature of that contact. The poor quality of the footage was insufficient to glean any details of that contact with any real certainty. There was some discussion, as I recall, about whether that was an arm or a leg striking Joko's back.

In any case, the demonstration violated the agreed-upon protocol on several significant points.
 
hello,
I might be blind as a bat, but there's the possibility that one of the YB folks running behind in that video let a good ol' style kick land on the back of Joko's head.
I admit that there's also the possibility that he was just falling down along with the others in a particularly uncoordinated way.

Anyway the only one who could tell something new is that Joko fellow. Did Anybody hear something from him?
 
Gaga said:
Anyway the only one who could tell something new is that Joko fellow. Did Anybody hear something from him?
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Right after the event, he explained that he had suddenly collapsed, and that he had felt nothing at all. He could not explain what had happened.

It was surmised by Randi and others that he was struck down by a taser. Supposedly you do not feel a thing while you collapse.
 
I've heard the argument that a taser/tazer would have been clearly visible in the dark (sparks)
My counter argument is that the tazer may have been situated on the opposite side of Joko from the camera perspective.
Any better arguments?
 
Placebo said:
I've heard the argument that a taser/tazer would have been clearly visible in the dark (sparks)
Click to expand...

A fwe words: A Tazer and A Stun Gun are two different things.

A tazer shoots darts into a person that are attached to a wire. The wire carries electricity and that goes into the body. There is no reason to see sparks unless part of the dart is touching metal.

A stun gun is held against the body. Most people who see stun guns see the flying sparks arcing between the contact leads and assume it would be visible. But in reality it would not since the thing is usually pressed against the body, making the flesh/clothing into an electrical carrier.

Stun Gun salesmen love to show the arcing electricity (which is not sparking, BTW) to demonstrate the 'effectiveness' of their product. But in every demonstration of a stun gun that I have seen the arcing just isn't visible.
 
steenkh said:
Actually, I believe it was discussed at the time, even before the test: The YB demanded that Joko enrolled in their organisation, but they allowed it to be in a symbolic way where he only put on their shirt.
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Can you show me a link where this protocole is being discussed before Randi cut off communication with YB? Thanks.

I doubt there was a stun gun involved.

stun guns FAQ
As a general rule, a 1/4 second contact will repel and startle the attacker, giving intense pain and muscle contraction. One to two seconds will cause intense pain, muscle spasms and a dazed mental state, this may drop the attacker to the ground. Over three seconds will cause intense pain, loss of balance, loss of muscle control, mental confusion and disorientation. Generally any charge over three seconds will cause the aggressor to fall to the ground. The aggressor will be unable to recover for several minutes and effects may last for up to fifteen minutes.
(emphases mine)
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So in order to be guaranteed he drops to the ground, one would have to make contact with him (while running behind him for 2-3 seconds.

So, the stun gun is unlikely. I have heard it argued that the tazer gun could not have been used because it would have left holes in his shirt.

Tazer FAQ
Must the probes penetrate the body to be effective?
No. The electrical current will "jump" up to two inches as long as both probes are attached to clothing or skin. At most, only the 3/8-inch needlepoint will penetrate the skin. They have less energy than a spring propelled BB.
Click to expand...

However I still find the tazer idea unlikely. If he had been shot in the back on on his right side, it would have been visible to the camera. So the only place he could have been shot would his left side. It would be pretty impressive to shoot a running person from the side in the dark.

I still suspect Joko.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
Can you show me a link where this protocole is being discussed before Randi cut off communication with YB? Thanks.
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I guess I cannot. A bit of lazy searching has brought this quote from the "Yellow Bamboo for real?"-thread:
Originally posted by theBoyPaj
The reason for the yellow shirt is that it was one of the stipulations of the test. The guinea pig had to join the group and be initiated.
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I cannot find anything from before the "test".

But I did find CFLarsen's lengthy post where he reprints the entire communication between Joko Tri and James Randi . This might be of some interest to this discussion.
 
Thanks for the info and links, steenkh.

Reading all the emails between Joko and Randi just raises more questions for me.

1. Joko claims to have joined Yellow Bamboo "a few days earlier so I wore my Yellow Bamboo uniform issued to me on my joining day." Now Joko is from the island of Java, and the YB chapter he tested is on Bali.
I live in Indonesia and am a muslim from the island of Java. A friend of mine from Australia told me about your challenge with the yellow bamboo organisation on bali
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Did Joko join the Bali chapter of YB, or was there a YB group on Java? If he did join the Bali YB chapter, it seems ambitious of him to travel to Bali, join the YBs, go home for "a few days" and then travel to Bali again. If he joined a group of YBs in Java, why did he have to travel to Bali? He could have been tested there on Java.

2. Joko claims his intention was to tap the man with the bamboo stick:
We stood about 10 meters from Mr Serengen and
I came toward him with the intention of tappinghim with the bamboo pole.
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But if you watch the video, he has the stick above his head in what looks like a striking, not tapping position.

3. Joko claims that there were other "attackers" running behind him:
I had some others behind me (Mr Ananda and Suardana) who also walked towards Mr Serengen after I started... ...The others behind me also were knocked to the ground. But they were behind me not in front of me.
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Well, technically he didn't call them "attackers" but according to YB, the only way it will work is if the person approaching has the intention of attacking. Anyway, it was dark, and there were a total of at least 3 people "attacking." So how are we to be sure it is Joko we see in the video, since they are all wearing yellow shirts?

Regardless whether or not these questions ever get answered, and we find out the truth, the fact of the matter is that the test was done poorly, and did not follow the pre set protocols.

I still suspect Joko. Even if Joko is who he claims to be (a skeptic) he could still be a person who saw an opportunity to make some money by working with YB to win the Million Dollars.

Anyone know Joko, and want to invite him here to defend my accusations?
 
I remember reading that Joko was threatened with legal action from the YB crowd. That wouldn't be consistent with him being a full-blown YB member - I doubt they'd have sued him otherwise.

(I believe I read this in the commentary)
 
Placebo said:
I remember reading that Joko was threatened with legal action from the YB crowd. That wouldn't be consistent with him being a full-blown YB member - I doubt they'd have sued him otherwise.

(I believe I read this in the commentary)
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I would like to know WHAT the YB crowd could threaten him with legal action about. For being associated with Randi? Revealing the secret handshake? Revealing the YB secret hideout?

I would also like to know where the story of this legal action about this came FROM. If it was from someone like baliwesternman (BWM) then it would be all to obviously a story that would have had very little likelihood of truth to it.

I think quite a few of us had sincere doubts about Joko Tri from the beginning, but we were prepared to see how it turned out. As it was, it hardly matters - the resulting video is a giant farce anyway and rightly discarded as evidence of anything but what it obviously is.

Personally, I thought it was then, and continue to think now, that Joko was indeed a "joko" - it was all a YB setup; far too pat, staged and obvious.
 
To clear up some confusion: Was the Joko test a legitimate prelim test or not?

As I understand, Randi had cut off comms with YB, so such a thing was not possible.

Should the test have been the real thing, then I would adamantly side with YB that it is the responsibility of the tester to ensure the protocol is adhered to, by the representative of JREF.

However, should it NOT have been the real thing, then the protocol used is really irrelevant anyway - they had no shot at the challenge after all. As such Joko was recruited as a 'casual' representative and not a full-blown prelim tester.

I'd go so far as to say that it seems Joko was simply conversing with Randi on a good protocol (which he nevertheless broke), and had no direct relation to JREF.

Someone please clear this up for me - I'm hearing a few differing answers on this :)
 
Nope

Placebo said:
To clear up some confusion: Was the Joko test a legitimate prelim test or not?

Someone please clear this up for me - I'm hearing a few differing answers on this :)
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Nope. This test was independent. It had nothing to do with JREF or Randi in any way.

But it WAS a test. It just wasn't a JREF Paranormal Challenge test.
 
Re: Nope

KRAMER said:
Nope. This test was independent. It had nothing to do with JREF or Randi in any way.

But it WAS a test. It just wasn't a JREF Paranormal Challenge test.
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Thanks for the clarification ;)

In that case, I don't see what everyone is going on about. The Joko test was casual and haphazardly executed, and the latest test was priceless :D
Case closed IMO - for now
 
Re: Nope

KRAMER said:
Nope. This test was independent. It had nothing to do with JREF or Randi in any way.

But it WAS a test. It just wasn't a JREF Paranormal Challenge test.
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It is not entirely true that this test had nothing to do with Randi, cf. the correspondance between Joko Tri and Randi. I also think it is true that it was not a JREF Paranormal Challenge test, but the problem is that it is not entirely clear if Joko Tri was aware of that, and the Yellow Bamboo was certainly not aware of it.


Randi starts by telling Tri, "Yes, I would accept you as a volunteer on behalf of the JREF." He then tells that he has broken off communication with YB, but he never makes it clear that he just wants to advise Tri on how to perform a "private" test, and I am sure that Tri presented himself to YB as the official JREF tester.

So there is some merit to YB's subsequent complaints about JREF reneging on the challenge, although I think it must be clear that if JREF breaks off communication, there cannot be a JREF test until communication has been resumed with the JREF. In any case the YB did not win the money, even if it had been an official JREF preliminary test, because there would have been a formal test to pass, too, and the protocol breaches invalidated the entire test procedure.
 
It could never have been a JREF preliminary test, because Joko Tri didn't follow the protocol the JREF had devised.
 
Kimpatsu said:
It could never have been a JREF preliminary test, because Joko Tri didn't follow the protocol the JREF had devised.
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Huh? If YB had documentation to the effect of a JREF test, then the protocol conformance is JREF's problem IMO.

If JREF screws up in the test protocol, then they pass the prelim since it was their responsibility. As I understand/see it.
It's much the same as if the person had cheated to get past the prelim - they would get the money regardless.

Nevertheless, this is NOT an official JREF test, and this is not the case. Joko was testing independently.
 
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