Written 9-12-01

[King of the Americas]

An Essay of Explanation & Blame
September 12, 2001

“This message will be difficult for some of you to hear and almost impossible for most to accept, but it needs to be said none the less.

Yesterday, several individuals sacrificed their lives to deliver a blow to two great symbols, and they killed many innocent people in the process. They used the most simple of tools and weapons in conjunction their very lives to deliver a message. When in the course of human events, people chose to take their own lives in order to make a statement we MUST be willing to take notice. Not unlike the rebellion that began this great nation, when people are so dedicated to a cause that they would end their very lives in pursuit of it, very little can be done to stop them.

The present media leadership has confused the issue and is twisting this act into something it is NOT. Many have claimed this to be an attack on American Freedom, and innocent Americans. Politicians use this event to garner support for bigger military projects and more intelligence operations. My fellow Americans, nothing could be further from the truth, or more of a mistake.

These targets were not people or freedoms, but symbols of what some people have done with their freedoms. One was the symbol of our nation’s military, and the other the cornerstone of western capitalism. The time has come for us to ask, “What could they have done to provoke such an attack?” Is our military involved in fights that are not their own, have we quartered soldiers in foreign lands where they are not welcome? Is western capitalism enslaving poor countries for its benefit, is it offering low prices for labor in subhuman working conditions, and then turning around only to claim righteousness? Could these entities have done ANYTHING to cause such a reaction? When in the course if human events, men are willing to take their own lives in the pursuit of a goal, we MUST be willing to take notice.

Many have spoke about ‘instant retaliation’, and that those responsible have to be brought to justice immediately. I hold that those responsible are already dead. The only people responsible for those attacks were those at the helms of those planes. No one can force a man to act, in any way other than that he has not already chosen. If indeed, Osama bin Laden ‘taught’ these people to take part in these acts, one can not discount the individual responsibility of these suicide murders. Free Speech is a cornerstone of Our Constitution, by crushing one man’s right to speak freely we trample the very document that provides us with the American Freedom we so cherish. If you cut the head off of this teacher and spiritual leader, the beast will grow many more heads in his students who hold him in high regard. When you kill the figurehead of an organization, you only fuel its members to struggle harder. When in the course of human events, our own American Soldiers are willing to take up arms and strike out at own Federal Buildings, we MUST be willing to take notice. When in the course of human events, individual men are willing to take their lives to strike a blow at the Pentagon & the World Trade Center we MUST be willing to take notice.

While I do NOT condone the taking of any innocent lives, I also can not discount the lives of those responsible for hijacking those planes. Human Life is paramount, and that means ALL human life. The American Federal Government and it’s Military have enemies as does Western Capitalism, and the enemy has breached our walls and they are among us. If these institutions are responsible for provoking men into taking their own lives to stop them, then we MUST take notice of these actions. Let us not forget that to offer your own life, is the supreme sacrifice that can be made to a cause and we MUST take notice of these sacrifices.

When in the course of Human Events, Men are willing to give their lives to a cause, We MUST be willing to take notice. The questions of When and How have been answered, as well as the question of Who. However, it is not until we answer the question of Why, that we will ever be even close to stopping this from happening again.

Now, I would like offer up a prayer, That We may all someday be willing to work together, to build a global community that offers better resolutions to change than the suicide murder of thousands. I pray We may work to show everyone that human life does not need to be taken to make changes in this civilized world.

In conclusion, We MUST be willing to look into the possible fault of these entities attacked, to indeed see if they have done or are doing anything that would provoke such an attack. If these institutions ARE the cause of this anger and changes aren’t made, then these attacks WILL continue, and more innocent people’s lives will be taken. When in the course of Human Events, Men are willing give their lives to a cause, there really is very little that can be done to stop them. We MUST be willing to hear the message, and not just demonize the messengers.”

 

[Tricky]

(Edited to fix KOA’s formatting marks)

An Essay of Explanation & Blame
September 12, 2001

This message will be difficult for some of you to hear and almost impossible for most to accept, but it needs to be said none the less.

Yesterday, several individuals sacrificed their lives to deliver a blow to two great symbols, and they killed many innocent people in the process. They used the most simple of tools and weapons in conjunction their very lives to deliver a message. When in the course of human events, people chose to take their own lives in order to make a statement we MUST be willing to take notice. Not unlike the rebellion that began this great nation, when people are so dedicated to a cause that they would end their very lives in pursuit of it, very little can be done to stop them.

The present media leadership has confused the issue and is twisting this act into something it is NOT. Many have claimed this to be an attack on American Freedom, and innocent Americans. Politicians use this event to garner support for bigger military projects and more intelligence operations. My fellow Americans, nothing could be further from the truth, or more of a mistake.

These targets were not people or freedoms, but symbols of what some people have done with their freedoms. One was the symbol of our nation’s military, and the other the cornerstone of western capitalism. The time has come for us to ask, “What could they have done to provoke such an attack?" Is our military involved in fights that are not their own, have we quartered soldiers in foreign lands where they are not welcome? Is western capitalism enslaving poor countries for its benefit, is it offering low prices for labor in subhuman working conditions, and then turning around only to claim righteousness? Could these entities have done ANYTHING to cause such a reaction? When in the course if human events, men are willing to take their own lives in the pursuit of a goal, we MUST be willing to take notice.

Many have spoke about ‘instant retaliation’, and that those responsible have to be brought to justice immediately. I hold that those responsible are already dead. The only people responsible for those attacks were those at the helms of those planes. No one can force a man to act, in any way other than that he has not already chosen. If indeed, Osama bin Laden 'taught’ these people to take part in these acts, one can not discount the individual responsibility of these suicide murders. Free Speech is a cornerstone of Our Constitution, by crushing one man’s right to speak freely we trample the very document that provides us with the American Freedom we so cherish. If you cut the head off of this teacher and spiritual leader, the beast will grow many more heads in his students who hold him in high regard. When you kill the figurehead of an organization, you only fuel its members to struggle harder. When in the course of human events, our own American Soldiers are willing to take up arms and strike out at own Federal Buildings, we MUST be willing to take notice. When in the course of human events, individual men are willing to take their lives to strike a blow at the Pentagon & the World Trade Center we MUST be willing to take notice.

While I do NOT condone the taking of any innocent lives, I also can not discount the lives of those responsible for hijacking those planes. Human Life is paramount, and that means ALL human life. The American Federal Government and it’s Military have enemies as does Western Capitalism, and the enemy has breached our walls and they are among us. If these institutions are responsible for provoking men into taking their own lives to stop them, then we MUST take notice of these actions. Let us not forget that to offer your own life, is the supreme sacrifice that can be made to a cause and we MUST take notice of these sacrifices.

When in the course of Human Events, Men are willing to give their lives to a cause, We MUST be willing to take notice. The questions of When and How have been answered, as well as the question of Who. However, it is not until we answer the question of Why, that we will ever be even close to stopping this from happening again.

Now, I would like offer up a prayer, That We may all someday be willing to work together, to build a global community that offers better resolutions to change than the suicide murder of thousands. I pray We may work to show everyone that human life does not need to be taken to make changes in this civilized world.

In conclusion, We MUST be willing to look into the possible fault of these entities attacked, to indeed see if they have done or are doing anything that would provoke such an attack. If these institutions ARE the cause of this anger and changes aren’t made, then these attacks WILL continue, and more innocent people’s lives will be taken. When in the course of Human Events, Men are willing give their lives to a cause, there really is very little that can be done to stop them. We MUST be willing to hear the message, and not just demonize the messengers.

 

[HarryKeogh]

While I certainly agree we must ask ourselves "what did we do to provoke such a response" (i.e. the 9/11 attacks) do you think Bin Laden and company are asking themselves "what did we do to provoke such a response" (i.e. american invasion of afghanistan).

in the two years since 9/11 Al qaeda has managed to have thousands of it's members killed or arrested, several thousand arab civilians killed ( many more injured), had it's seat of power (Afghanistan) removed, displayed it's cowardly tactics to a worldwild forum and managed to make tens of millions of people hateful of the religion they are willing to die for.

one of al quada's goals is the destruction of the infidels. that includes me since i dont believe in their religious nonsense. it's very difficult to reason with those kinds of beliefs. While the US certainly can do a lot to improve it's relations with the arab world and take a more balanced stance in the israeli/palestinian affair i'm not sure if a group like al qaeda would ever be satisfied with our actions.

 

[Upchurch]

NPR this morning had a piece about the effects of the Iraqi war on Al Queda. I don't remember what was exactly said (I was still waking up), but the gist was that our invasion and occupation of Iraq is fueling muslim hatred of America and there have been massive amounts of recruits to Al Queda. While those in charge of Al Queda pre-9/11 are mostly gone, there are plenty of new members to replace and fill the ranks.

Essentially, we played into the islamic fundamentalists' hands.

 

[Tony]

NPR this morning had a piece about the effects of the Iraqi war on Al Queda. I don't remember what was exactly said (I was still waking up), but the gist was that our invasion and occupation of Iraq is fueling muslim hatred of America and there have been massive amounts of recruits to Al Queda. While those in charge of Al Queda pre-9/11 are mostly gone, there are plenty of new members to replace and fill the ranks.

Do you fear muslim hatred? What do you suggest we do?

 

[Dancing David]

Yes KoA, we all need to recognise the circle of life and take resposibilty for the evil we create that leads to eveil.

But the 9-11 bombers are KOOKS! They could have done a million other things to help the people they want to help, but no , they had to be KOOKS and just kill.

The truely brave person builds in the face of evil and only kills when absolutely nessecary.

KOOKS!

 

[Dancing David]

Do you fear muslim hatred? What do you suggest we do?

I suggest that we sit on Ariel Sharon until he stops acting like a facist, and that we use our grain surplus to feed the hungry.

If we had wanted to topple Saddam peacefully, how much would that have cost. 'Constructive engagement' could have been used in Iraq, saved lives and built the image of the USA as a positive force in world politics.

Islam is no more dangerous than Xianity.

You fight haterd by building trust, now there is another generation of arabs that sees us as the short sighted bully on the block.

Respectfully

 

[Upchurch]

Do you fear muslim hatred? What do you suggest we do?

When it comes down to it, I fear just about anyone's hatred, because hatred often makes people act irrationally.

As for what we do about it now, I have no idea. I'm just saying that, especially in retrospect, attacking and occupying Iraq was not a good idea as it now looks like it may have hurt us more than it's helped us overall.

This is, of course, assuming I heard the radio correctly and that the piece itself was correct.

 

[Crossbow]

Do you fear muslim hatred? What do you suggest we do?

Er Tony, I take it that you have not actually listened to the NPR story Upchurch mentioned and I belive that he is saying the war has turned an incorrect assessment (Iraq is the biggest terrorist haven since Afganistan, so we have to attack them now) into a correct assessment (beacuse the Iraqi borders are so porus and there are so many Americans in Iraq, that it is drawing in numerous terrorists so we have to attack them now).

 

[Upchurch]

belive that he is saying the war has turned an incorrect assessment (Iraq is the biggest terrorist haven since Afganistan, so we have to attack them now) into a correct assessment (beacuse the Iraqi borders are so porus and there are so many Americans in Iraq, that it is drawing in numerous terrorists so we have to attack them now).

Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that part of the piece. Iraq became a sort of self fullfilling prophesy. Whether or not it had any real ties to terrorist networks, our being there has, in essense, "collapsed Iraq's terrorist wave function" and made it have real ties to terrorist networks.

(pardon the mixed metaphore)

 

[RCNelson]

King of the Americas:
Many have spoke about ‘instant retaliation’, and that those responsible have to be brought to justice immediately. I hold that those responsible are already dead. The only people responsible for those attacks were those at the helms of those planes. No one can force a man to act, in any way other than that he has not already chosen. If indeed, Osama bin Laden 'taught’ these people to take part in these acts, one can not discount the individual responsibility of these suicide murders. Free Speech is a cornerstone of Our Constitution, by crushing one man’s right to speak freely we trample the very document that provides us with the American Freedom we so cherish.

So here you're telling us that Osama bin Laden was merely exercising his right of free speech and was not responsible for his followers flying into the WTC.

King of the Americas:
In conclusion, We MUST be willing to look into the possible fault of these entities attacked, to indeed see if they have done or are doing anything that would provoke such an attack. If these institutions ARE the cause of this anger and changes aren’t made, then these attacks WILL continue, and more innocent people’s lives will be taken.

And here you're telling us about the "fault of these entities attacked".

Now here's a question for you, King of the Americas:

What actually WAS the terrorist's reasons for the 9-11 attack?

And how do you know?

 

[King of the Americas]

THIS JUST IN

The truely brave person builds in the face of evil and only kills when absolutely nessecary.

KOOKS!

---

SUMMATION: The United States by invading Iraq, is not 'brave' and is in fact "KOOKY" for doing so.

Look, people kill for a lOT of different reasons, ONE of which being the protection of their homeland. To IGNORE this motive completely isa folly in my opinion, and will only lead to worsening attacks.

 

[Tony]

I suggest that we sit on Ariel Sharon until he stops acting like a facist,

And let Arafat continue to do the same?

I think we should encourage and defend Sharon, he is defending his country and his people from rabid fanatics.

and that we use our grain surplus to feed the hungry.

The GM modified grain? I thought the euro-sissies were anti-GM.

Islam is no more dangerous than Xianity.

You're blinded by your bigoted views on christianity.

You fight haterd by building trust, now there is another generation of arabs that sees us as the short sighted bully on the block.

What evidence is there that suggests muslim fanatics in the middle east respect good will and non-violence?

And how do you propse we build trust when those governments force feed their populations anti-western propaganda?

 

[Tony]

As for what we do about it now, I have no idea. I'm just saying that, especially in retrospect, attacking and occupying Iraq was not a good idea as it now looks like it may have hurt us more than it's helped us overall.

Just to clarify, do you not think it was worth it to take out a dictator like saddam?

 

[Upchurch]

And let Arafat continue to do the same?

I think we should encourage and defend Sharon, he is defending his country and his people from rabid fanatics.

No. of course not. Both Arafat and Sharon have made mistakes and rather big ones at that. I don't know what the correct answer is, but until both of them get over this irrational hatred, nothing will get accomplished.

btw, I'm not saying that there aren't rational reasons for each side to dislike each other, but in the end, those must be put aside if a practical solution is to be found. What I'm saying is the fact that they haven't put the rational hatred aside for the mutual benefit of both of their people is irrational.

and that we use our grain surplus to feed the hungry.

The GM modified grain? I thought the euro-sissies were anti-GM.

Islam is no more dangerous than Xianity.

You're blinded by your bigoted views on christianity.

Funny succession of thoughts there. "euro-sissies" followed by an accusation of bigotry.

Anyway, Islam isn't any more dangerous that Christianity. It's fanaticism and extremism, in any religion, that is dangerous. Islam has them, but so does Christianity. Recognizing an equality or simularity isn't bigotry.

 

[Upchurch]

Just to clarify, do you not think it was worth it to take out a dictator like saddam?

Oh, I think removing Saddam was a good thing. But (1) I don't think it has made us any safer from terrorism and (2) I don't see how the U.S. has the authority to remove another country's government.

There are a lot of governments in the world that we don't agree with, but that doesn't give us the right to forcibly remove those governments.

 

[Tony]

Recognizing an equality or simularity isn't bigotry.

Making equivalence when there is none is bigotry. To say that global christian fanaticism is just as dangerous or prevalent as global Islamic fanaticism is just laughable.

 

[Tony]

Funny succession of thoughts there. "euro-sissies" followed by an accusation of bigotry.

You have to allow the token irreverence now and then.

 

[Upchurch]

Making equivalence when there is none is bigotry. To say that global christian fanaticism is just as dangerous or prevalent as global Islamic fanaticism is just laughable.

There are many ways to judge "dangerous".

What is more dangerous to the American way of life? (After all, didn't we only really become interested in "global" terrorism once it happened on US soil?) Islamic extremists who have killed several thousand people, but haven't really changed the basis of the US or Christian extremists who are trying redefine or amend the Constitution to conform to their narrow view of right and wrong and make this a Christian nation?

As far as pure physical violence goes, I agree the Islamic extremists have the Christian extemists beat here in America in terms of total number of people dead. (I think. It depends on how far back in history you want to go.) As far as number of incidents of terrorism on US soil, the Christian extremists have the Islamic extremists beat.

On a gloabal scale, going back throughout history, I don't know which side has the larger numbers, to be honest.

 

[Upchurch]

You have to allow the token irreverence now and then.

Hey, we all get carried away once in a while.