theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Since when is an atheistic condemnation of Islam hate speech?
Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
It isn't.
ETA: Actually it can be, when it crosses the line into a call for violence against Islamic people. You know, the definition of hate speech? But I wasn't talking specifically about that.
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psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Are you claiming that the definition of "hate speech" is not broadening in the UK?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
There's no special protection for speakers at Speakers' Corner, you can say anything that's within the law anywhere else in England.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
So you responded to something I didn't say.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Have to admit, that's a pretty good petard hoist!
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
That wasnt the issue, and it doesn't answer the question... which was....
I can't be sure but I think the "chances" @theprestige is referring to might be those of survival.
Lukraak_Sisser
Philosopher
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The chances of survival for @theprestige 's hypothetical scenario would be near 100% (you could trip and die for instance).
MAYBE someone would attempt to get physical, but that chance is way lower than being assaulted for wearing the wrong football shirt in the wrong area of a town.
The chance of being heckled is high of course. And the problem with right-wing snowflakes is that they only want to spew hatred without anyone countering their nonsense, so I doubt any anti-islam crusader would last long.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
The chances of survival may be pretty good but depending on how religious vilification laws are framed in the UK, the chances of not getting arrested may not be.
Speakers corner was created by legislation. The 'rules' are
An atheist critique of Islam / the Koran would not breach the law. If you took things out of historical context and called the Prophet a paedophile you would be on thin ice, as this would be offensive. If you called for burning down Mosques and driving Pakistan and rag heads into the sea you would definitely be breaking the law. Tearing up a Koran would probably result in a charge of behaviour likely to promote a breach of the peace.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Irrelevant when you understand that under Qu'ran teachings, apostates must be converted, and if they won't convert, they are to be executed by beheading. There are millions of Muslims worldwide (and thousands in the UK) who follow the Qu'ran to the letter. Don't think so? Ever heard of Honour Killings? Here and interactive map of "Honour Killing" locations just in the UK alone.
... but the truth, a truth that can get you killed. Even mocking the prophets or drawing a picture of him can get you killed (see Charlie Hebdo)
Correct
Why? Why should it? Would tearing up a Tanakh, or an NT Bible, or an OT Bible get you charged with a promoting a breach of the peace? Of course no, so why should the Qu'ran be afforded some special deference that is not accorded any other religious work of fiction.
How about yelling "we love bacon"? We already know that will get you arrested!
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Have those "rules" changed since the institution was created?
As an apostate (an avowed atheist) I am very familiar with the possible consequences of travelling to countries with Sharia law. I suspect as someone raised within a muslim household I am more familiar than you with the Quran (if you are going to use the apostrophe at least put it in the correct place; Qur'an).
Honour killings are nothing to do with the Quran, no Islamic scholar promotes honour killings. Honour killings are cultural not Islamic, and occur in families who adhere to other religions. Honour killings occur in India in non-Islamic communities and within Christian Arab families. They were of course quite common in areas of Eastern Europe and Italy (which still has a significant honour based legal system although the honour defence for murder was abolished in 1981). This is just anti-Islamic propaganda; a racist trope you seem to have bought into. The issue of women being perceived as male property is a human issue not an Islamic one, In England this concept was essentially ended in 1882. Are you familiar with Othello, Much Ado About Nothing, Winters Tale, Titus andronicus?
Of course Italy is well known for being Islamic - NOT.
No (although the rule about use of amplification devices may not have been an issue when the law was passed). The law essentially said that the speech had to be legal, even originally you could not promote violence, provoke a breach of the peace etc. At that time blasphemy was a crime so that was a significant limit that no longer exists.
Burning a Quran in public was found to not be a breach of the peace: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9v7wlj3pr2o
Unlikely that tearing one up would be different, albeit since it would be in one of the London parks you may get a on the spot fine for littering.
Unlikely that tearing one up would be different, albeit since it would be in one of the London parks you may get a on the spot fine for littering.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Burning a Quran is certainly a provocation. You don't do it without foreknowledge that some people will respond with violence if they can.
And in the UK that would be a form of assault that would be prosecuted if caught and arrested.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Qur'an burner Hamit Coskun got prosecuted...
Man who burned Quran outside Turkish consulate wins appeal
Hamit Coskun's freedom of expression includes the right to express views that offend, a judge rules.
www.bbc.com
In June, he was found guilty at Westminster Magistrates' Court of a religiously aggravated public order offence and fined £240.
... then the Free Speech Union got involved, helped him to appeal, and got the conviction overturned.
THE PROCESS IS THE PUNISHMENT
Meanwhile, the Muslim Extremist who attacked him with a knife and threaten to kill him....
Man spared jail over attacking Quran-burning protester
Moussa Kadri attacked Hamit Coskun for burning the Islamic holy book during a protest in Knightsbridge.
www.bbc.com
Moussa Kadri, 59, saw Hamit Coskun setting alight the text and shouted: "I'm going to kill you" before slashing at him with a knife.
... got a slap on the wrist with a damp tram ticket!
Kadri, who pleaded guilty to assault and having a bladed article in a public place, is also required to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work and 10 days of rehabilitation.
Now there's some British "two tier" justice for you
Hamit Coskun gets convicted and fined for burning a Qur'an
Lucy Connolly gets sentenced to 31 months in jail for a few (admittedly nasty) hurty words in a Tweet.
yet
Moussa Kadri gets 150 hours community service for attempting to kill someone with a knife
Sean Hogg gets 270 hours of community work for the rape of a 13 year old girl
Something is very, very wrong with this picture, but the lesson is very clear... wrongthink, and freely speaking or exressing your thoughts attracts severe punishment, while committing actual physical crimes such as rape and attempted murder, will get you treated like a naughty schoolboy.
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Trausti
Master Poster
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So, what?