Would a wall stop illegal immigrants?

Darth Rotor said:
Consider the cost in cigarettes and blind folds. Have these been budgeted for? :confused:

DR
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We can reuse the blindfolds. And, if the firing squad acts quickly enough, we can probably get decent mileage (2-3 individuals) per cigarette.
 
Maximillian was an illegal alien...he wasn't Mexican...oh, wait, now I see your point. Nevermind.
 
Here's a question: do Mexicans think a wall will slow down illegal immigration? I think the clear answer has to be yes, they think it will. Otherwise, why would they be getting upset about it? Mexico relies upon illegal immigration to the US. Immigration from Mexico to the US is a safety valve which removes malcontents (created by Mexico's own internal problems), and the money they send back from the US represents the one of the largest industries the country has (larger than oil, IIRC). They don't want that decreased, and if the wall had no chance of impacting illegal immigration, they wouldn't be getting upset about it.
 
MelBrooksfan said:
We can reuse the blindfolds. And, if the firing squad acts quickly enough, we can probably get decent mileage (2-3 individuals) per cigarette.
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But that's a health hazard! Such a practice might pass on communicable diseases! That's why the medics make sure to swab the arm of a death row inmate, about to get a lethal injection, with alcohol! Sorry, each gets his or her own cigarette. OSHA love us all, regardless of absurdity. :D

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
But that's a health hazard! Such a practice might pass on communicable diseases! That's why the medics make sure to swab the arm of a death row inmate, about to get a lethal injection, with alcohol! Sorry, each gets his or her own cigarette. OSHA love us all, regardless of absurdity. :D

DR
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Drat. Cigarettes are expensive nowadays. Wait, we'll just get the tobacco companies to sponsor the executions. We just execute the illegal aliens in front of a giant Marlboro banner. (Or, we sell advertising space on that wall in general and use that to fund things).
 
Ziggurat said:
A wall doesn't have to stop illegal immigration to be worth something, it only has to slow it down.
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If the cost of building and maintaining it is greater than the economic benefit, then it is not "worth something". It is worth "negative something".

Ziggurat said:
Mexico certainly thinks so, which is why they've got one on their own southern border.
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I'm having a hard time finding anything about this Mexico/Guatemala wall. Could you provide a link?
 
Ziggurat said:
Here's a question: do Mexicans think a wall will slow down illegal immigration? I think the clear answer has to be yes, they think it will. Otherwise, why would they be getting upset about it? Mexico relies upon illegal immigration to the US. Immigration from Mexico to the US is a safety valve which removes malcontents (created by Mexico's own internal problems), and the money they send back from the US represents the one of the largest industries the country has (larger than oil, IIRC). They don't want that decreased, and if the wall had no chance of impacting illegal immigration, they wouldn't be getting upset about it.
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That is one of the worst bits of logic I've ever heard. It presumes that the only reason Mexico is against the wall is to allow illegal immigration. I'm not going to deny that it could be one reason, but it might be that Mexico would regard building a wall as a hostile act. I believe that overall, it is probably better that we keep Mexico as an ally, or at least, not openly hostile.

And I cannot undertstand why anyone would want to prevent Mexico from benefitting from our economy. Wouldn't that cause fewer people to want or need to emigrate?
 
MelBrooksfan said:
http://www.sacunion.com/pages/columns/articles/border_wall_is_no_fix/

Nothing about a wall but the article does mention that Mexico uses landmines and assault rifles to enforce that southern border...
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I appreciate the link, but can you find something that isn't an editorial by Grumpyface McScowl?

Liam_Weston_--_MUG_SHOT.jpg
 
Tricky said:
And I cannot undertstand why anyone would want to prevent Mexico from benefitting from our economy. Wouldn't that cause fewer people to want or need to emigrate?
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It hasn't so far.

One operational definition of "insanity" is to keep doing the same thing, and expecting a different result. (Forget which wag that is attributed to, but I had it pounded into my head during the Deming Era. Curse you, Frank Kelso!)

According to one author, China, Inc, whatever beneficial influence the NAFTA deal had on local Mexican industry has been overcome by Chinese snapping up of low wage jobs at Mexico's expense. Regional models running into global forces don't always stand up.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
It hasn't so far.

One operational definition of "insanity" is to keep doing the same thing, and expecting a different result. (Forget which wag that is attributed to, but I had it pounded into my head during the Deming Era. Curse you, Frank Kelso!)

According to one author, China, Inc, whatever beneficial influence the NAFTA deal had on local Mexican industry has been overcome by Chinese snapping up of low wage jobs at Mexico's expense. Regional models running into global forces don't always stand up.

DR
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Please explain how our agricultural labor has been outsourced to China.
 
Darth Rotor said:
This relates to Mexico, and the US-Mexico border, how?

FWIW, a better illustration might be the DMZ in Korea.

DR
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To remind people what we do use landmines to set a border, just not yet one to our mainland. That stupid Cubans only helped the U.S. take Gantaunamo during the Spanish-American War, how dare they even consider trying to emmigrate from Cuba to the U.S. by walking to the base there.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Please explain how our agricultural labor has been outsourced to China.
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Looks like I left out a word.

How it should have read:

According to one author, China, Inc, whatever beneficial influence the NAFTA deal had on local Mexican industry has been overcome by Chinese snapping up of low wage manufacturing jobs at Mexico's expense. Regional models running into global forces don't always stand up.

Tricky's inference had to do with an improvement in the Mexican economy reducing the flow of immigrants. That hasn't happened.

If you want more on the specific point, please feel free to skim or scan the non-fiction work I referenced. Draw your own conclusions.

DR
 
ImaginalDisc said:
To remind people what we do use landmines to set a border, just not yet one to our mainland. That stupid Cubans only helped the U.S. take Gantaunamo during the Spanish-American War, how dare they even consider trying to emmigrate from Cuba to the U.S. by walking to the base there.
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Castro.

Next stupid question?

Wait, you live in Miami, that was obviously rhetorical. Never mind.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
If you want more on the specific point, please feel free to skim or scan the non-fiction work I referenced. Draw your own conclusions.

DR
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Could you be more lazy? "Read this book. It makes arguments that support my position. What's that? You want me to make my own arguments, possibly citing that book as a source? No, no, no. You don't get it. If I tell you to read a book you haven't read yet, I can claim all your arguements pale before my own as I cower behind my book."
 
Tricky said:
That is one of the worst bits of logic I've ever heard. It presumes that the only reason Mexico is against the wall is to allow illegal immigration. I'm not going to deny that it could be one reason, but it might be that Mexico would regard building a wall as a hostile act.
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It's on our side of the border. How can it possibly be hostile unless it makes an actual difference in their ability to export people to the US? Or are you claiming that they're this upset over something they view as purely symbolic?

And I cannot undertstand why anyone would want to prevent Mexico from benefitting from our economy. Wouldn't that cause fewer people to want or need to emigrate?
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You misunderstand my argument. I mentioned Mexico benefiting to show why they want to continue the current state of affairs, not because that's something I think is a problem in and of itself. There are two problems: first off, Mexico benefitting from payments sent there isn't the only effect (if it were I would not object). But it's not the only effect, and it's not cost-free for us. And second, and perhaps more importantly, the whole thing (the combination of exporting people and importing cash) has meant that Mexico could get away without much internal reforms without having to pay a significant price for that failure up till now. And it's that failure to solve their own internal problems which could spell SERIOUS problems down the road (such as if their oil production falls off significantly), both for us AND for them.
 
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