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william rodriguez

Docker said:
They worked in the twin towers and even lived through one bombing (in Rodriguez case), they were there on 9/11 and you challenge their interpretation from behind your PC, doing a bit of googling.
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In short, yes. Because people quite often misinterpret what they see and hear when they don't have all the facts. As an example, an engineer makes an assumption that the smell of kerosene is from burning cars, because he has no information to think otherwise, even though cars don't have kerosene in them.

Had he been aware at the time that a jet airliner had just smashed into the building and spilled jet fuel down the elevator shafts I'm sure he would have immediately assumed he was smelling said jet fuel.

My assessment of what happened is based on the COLLECTIVE experience of HUNDREDS of people. Not two people in the basement who had no f-ing idea what was going on.

Your "bomb in the basement" theory does not explain the extensive damage to elevator shafts and doors throughout the building, from basement to roof. It does not explain the specific accounts of "kerosene" and "jet fuel" given by a great number of people who, just like your two pet witnesses, were heroes who were there on the day. It does not explain the repeated accounts of flash burns (Rodriguez mentions these burns himself, you may recall).

In contrast, the theory that jet fuel spilled down elevator shafts and ignited creating devastating compression waves and flash burns IS consistant with EVERY survivor (and non-survivor) testimony I have ever come across, including the two you like to quote.


Docker said:
Go and tell these heroes that they didnt see what they saw.
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They saw f-all. They didn't even HEAR that much. And (allowing for changes in story) I think they heard and saw what they say they heard and saw. What I DON'T think is it meant what they decided it meant.

-Gumboot
 
Docker said:
Memory is a strange thing. After severe trauma suppressed memories can gradually surface. Indeed, total amnesia is not uncommon in such cases at the bieginning.

You are a disgrace. Go and make these claims to the national hero Rodriguez or are you a coward?
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Riiiiiight. To you, it's all about suppressed memories and amnesia. Got it. It has absolutely nothing to do with multi-million dollar lawsuits and repeatedly changing stories. Sure.

The truth is that because you don't like the facts, you choose to ignore them and you try to disparage others for pointing them out.

It's easy to see the "disgrace" here, and it isn't me, or anyone else who actually brings intelligence, rational, logical and critical thought to the table. It's nonsensical woos like you who are incapable of rational, logical, or critical thought who are disgraceful.

Similarly, your tossing around the "coward" label in my direction is just ridiculous. But you knew that.

I actually feel half sorry for William Rodriguez because I believe that if and when he ever gets to trial (although last I heard, his main lawsuit has come to somewhat of a screeching halt), he'll be annihilated on cross.
 
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Docker said:
Memory is a strange thing.
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It's well established that memory usually becomes much weaker over time. People tend to incorporate new information into their "memory" so that details become a genuine part of their memory even though they were never originally there.

For example someone who witnesses a murder will replace the killer's face with a specific suspect. Even though they never saw that person, they will genuinely believe they remember that person.

No doubt you are aware of false memory and memory bias.

-Gumboot
 
Sorry for jumping into this thread so late and stirring up the dregs, but I noticed a lie Docker told which has gone uncontested:

Docker said:
He claims the kerosene was from a car fire. Hes an engineer, he may know the difference.
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Docker is citing this source.

The actuall quote was "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs". This is a far cry from "He claims the kerosene was from a car fire".

Why do you so blatantly lie, Docker?
 
Docker said:
There must have been a lot of this fuel. Some burned off in a huge fireball, some destroyed the basement and some brought down a 110 storey building. Big fuel tanks those.
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NIST estimates that there was 10,000 gallons of fuel remaining on the jets at the time of impact. The fireballs consumed 1000-3000 of that, leaving 7000-9000 gallons remaining to fuel the fires, spill down the maintenance/elevator shafts (which the planes had damaged), etc.
 
Docker said:
More evasion. Cite an example of fuel doing tyhis to a building or retract your speculative claims.
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The B-25 that hit the Empire State building in the 40's had only 800 gallons of fuel. Yet enough of that went down the elevator shafts to start fires in the lobby of that building.

The jets that hit the towers had 10,000 gallons.
 
Docker's posts are laughable, How much does a 50 ton hydraulic press weigh, my 40 ton Manual Hydraulic press weights about 200 Pounds!
http://www.pacceram.com/50t.htm One like mine,http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46768.
The fact it is a 50 ton press does not mean it weighs 50 tons, that is simply the maximum force it can exert though hydraulic pressure.
Kerosene and Diesel from a Diesel car smell almost Identical, Let us also not forget that When exposed to fire things tend to explode, what else was In the offices or on the plane that could have exploded in the elevator shafts?
For instance if an Oxygen tank ruptured in the shafts it would have exploded and reacted with the fuel and could have caused the damage Docker is referring to.
Sound travels at close to 5000 meters per second in steel, but only a fraction of that though air, the effect has been noted hundreds of times.
The very reason your voice sounds different when recorded is because of the way sound travels faster and better though solids, than though air.
Docker is simply using Assumption and junk Science.
 
qarnos said:
Sorry for jumping into this thread so late and stirring up the dregs, but I noticed a lie Docker told which has gone uncontested:
Docker is citing this source.
The actuall quote was "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs". This is a far cry from "He claims the kerosene was from a car fire".
Why do you so blatantly lie, Docker?
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ditto

theories using mike pecararo's story as a pivot/crutch for CD in the WTC1 basement have been comprehensively debunked. i pointed this out with more detail on a previous page.

i ask docker now. can you explain why the firedoor was found where it was if CD "explosions" originated on that level or lower levels??

carefully selected quotes (and cynical misquotes like yours) from mike pecararos account of that day are widely used by other CT'ers when putting forward evidence of basement "bombs". however, to the contrary, after reading the whole of mike's story, what he recalls shows positive evidence that, almost certainly, the blast originated ABOVE the lower sub-levels (at level B or above). can you show i'm wrong?

i'm all ears


BV
 
PS. I forgot to mention also that in fires hydraulic oil reservoirs are known to explode since they are filled with flammable hydraulic oil basically a ten weight petrol Oil, similar to kerosene.
The tanks are not designed to be pressurized, only to store the oil to work the mechanism.
 
Docker said:
No bell, I just be bothered digging out accounts for a man I know has seen them.
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translation: no bell, I am not going to do one iota of research since there are no sources to back my claims, so Im making them up as I go along.
 
For all the sick creeps in this forum who say Rodriguez is changing his story:

He turned down a massive sum off money from the victim compensation fund. Please bear that in mind before maligning this true hero.
 
Docker said:
For all the sick creeps in this forum who say Rodriguez is changing his story:

He turned down a massive sum off money from the victim compensation fund. Please bear that in mind before maligning this true hero.
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What bearing does his acceptance, or refusal, of compensation have on whether his story has changed or not? Blatant argumentum ad misericordiam.
 
gumboot said:
I believe he rescued a number of people from the buildings/elevators and risked his own life in the process.

-Gumboot
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Indeed. He was ordered to leave the building by his boss and he refused. Instead he climbed the towers helping fireman open doors and find people. He personally pushed 52 people out of the doors and remained until the tower collapsed. He was found under a truck. Bush declared him a national hero.

This is the man that some sick creeps in here have been accusing of lying to get fame and money.

Hang your heads in shame
 
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