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Will free/open source software eventually triumph over proprietary software?

As far as I can tell, you're right. Your post kind of bolsters Donn's earlier claim that proprietary software is "woo", and the more democratic, anti-authoritarian fropen source software isn't woo, although I think he was using this as more of a metaphor. The idea that you get special protections from the licensing agreement by using Microsoft's products that you don't get with fropen software is either a "woo" idea or an idea that comes awfully close to it.

Even if not "woo" it is certainly wrong to think that, in many or most cases and so does not give proprietary products an advantage.

Uhm, sorry, but i am not saying that there is anything "woo" about proprietary software. The problem simply is that many people think that because they bought the software, that it comes with some kind of warranty. That's clearly not the case at all. Also, i am not talking about special protection, for example against stupid patent assertions and the like. My point was only about a software vendors liability in case the software goes havoc.

And there is a reason why they don't offer that by default. Software is really complex, and it is close to impossible to write a bug-free piece of code that works properly under all conditions. One problem is because software gets really, really complex these days. The other problem is the sheer diversity of different hardware and OS combinations.

As said, of course you can get special contracts and agreements that include services like fixing bugs etc. But those are nothing that only proprietary vendors offer, the same is available for OSS as well. Redhat being the most prominent example, but there are a lot of other smaller companies that offer specialized services in various application fields.

But all that is not really a problem, in my opinion. What's far worse is the rights that you grant the software vendors by accepting their licensing terms. Really, just read all the EULA's and whatnot for the stuff you have installed. And read them very carefully. You will find the standard stuff, like no liability at all, no matter what. But then you will find stuff like that they can revoke your license at will, for basically any reason they may come up with. And don't even get me started on stuff like where they reserve the right to visit you at any time they want, to basically raid your company/home to verify what you have running/installed on your computers, etc.

And those thing's do not exist because they make much sense, but because most people simple don't read those agreements and thus the vendors just get away with it.

Greetings,

Chris
 
The whole concept of fropen might be considered 'woo' ... how about clopen ?

http://marketingland.com/for-consumers-android-is-more-clopen-than-open-2388

How about things like indemnification, etc ? Are those also 'woo' that doesn't exist for commercial software.

Indemnification is the result of a severely broken patent system that can only be called "perverted" by now. It is a shame that software vendors moved from defining themselves by the quality and functionality of their products, towards defining themselves by wielding their absurd patent-portfolios at every occasion.

Greetings,

Chris
 
Indemnification is the result of a severely broken patent system that can only be called "perverted" by now. It is a shame that software vendors moved from defining themselves by the quality and functionality of their products, towards defining themselves by wielding their absurd patent-portfolios at every occasion.

Greetings,

Chris

It certainly is a shame in many regards, but it does exist, and must be taken into consideration in a business environment.

I think regardless, quality products, whether FOSS or COTS or however licensed, quality products often distinguish themselves find a way to the top of the pile.
 
It certainly is a shame in many regards, but it does exist, and must be taken into consideration in a business environment.

Yes, indeed. But it also needs to be changed, sooner than later. So it's not just enough to think "Well, it's just that way, so we have to consider it", but it has to be fought against, IMHO.

Just a rough example: Who owns your data? That is, the data in the databases, the documents you create, etc. Normally you would say "Well, it's my company, so i own them". But looking closer, that is not entirely true. There are lots of proprietary formats that are not really documented. So, to be able to use your own data, you are also forced to pay money for all the new versions of the software that produced them. Sure, you could say "What the heck, i'm happy with version X, and stay with that". But at some point you get stuff from your customers who did update, so you are again forced to update as well, otherwise you can't open it.

And now that is where that patent craziness comes into play. Someone may be able to reverse engineer the format, creating a converter for them. But would that be allowed to be distributed to you? It will very like turn out to be a dark-gray area at best. And even then, you may just get the gist of the data, but loose all formatting, database tables, etc.

That's the vendor lock-in at play, and that lock is secured more and more by silly patents that make it impossible for others to access/implement those formats legally.

I think regardless, quality products, whether FOSS or COTS or however licensed, quality products often distinguish themselves find a way to the top of the pile.

Absolutely true. Quality of software has nothing to do with the license or price. Something that many people tend to forget. Just because you paid a buckload of money does not guarantee a good software. Having it completely open as OSS doesn't guarantee that either.

Personally, however, i think that OSS has many advantages, simply because the source is accessible and enables you to get active yourself, if need be. All your data created by OSS is accessible to you at all times, because you have access to the very code that actually creates and reads those formats.

I'm not saying that OSS is the catch-all solution for all problems. It still has a long way to go, that's for sure. But it must be taken seriously, it is already causing big changes in the way big companies think and act. It _does_ give the John Doe user more freedom, whether he can use that freedom or not.

I guess many people will be surprised to learn where, for example, Linux is already in use. You have a router at home? Chances are it runs Linux. Lot's of appliances use it, and the numbers are growing. It has already come a long way from being a "just for fun" toy of a student, to a really reliable and usable tool for a lot of companies. And that growth (in "userbase" as well as functionality) is mainly due to the OSS aspect of it. Never underestimate a crowd of interested people working together because it brings them a lot of fun, compared to a crowd of people who work on something just to be able to pay their rent at the end of the month. There _is_ a difference in motivation here.

Greetings,

Chris
 
A lot of the places where Linux (the biggest success story of FOSS) runs are not on the desktop but in the back rooms. File servers, mail servers, web servers, telephone systems, supercomputers: a huge number of these run Linux as their OS with both FOSS and proprietary software on top. That's the way it is in the small company I work for: Windows on the desktop, but Linux on the core infrastructure that glues everything together. (We're a web services company, and our web servers run Linux with Apache, Perl, Ruby, and Tomcat.)

It's in this space that FOSS has already triumphed. Google runs on Linux. Facebook and Amazon run on Linux. Wikipedia runs on Linux. So does CERN and Large Hadron Collider. So do most of the top 100 supercomputers in the world.
 
I work for a major bank and our webservers are all IBM WAS running on Suse linux. That's web services accessed by some major customers.
Ease of use? I'm typing this on an android tablet with firefox.

Bur on the other hand I remember the fuss when a lot of IBM software went OCO (object code only) and stopped shipping source. They couldn't afford the cost of supporting customers tweaks and support contracts meant they'd have a lot of code forks. On a similar issue when I worked on CICS we checked the source system and there were far more lines of code in there to test CICS than in CICS itself.
My conclusion? It's a bit more complex than many might assume.
 
Keep in mind that in some cases, it may not be that Windows/Office/Photoshop work better than their alternatives. It may be that its just different than what people are used to.

If you get used to an application working/acting a certain way, you will have problems when confronted by a different piece of software that does the same things just as well, but with different layouts, etc.

Of course, this doesn't mean that I expect open source software to take over... I figure we'll be using Microsoft Word/Photoshop/etc. for some time to come. Just that the idea that Open Source "Doesn't work as well" might not always be right.

Its the nature of Open Source. Because Open Source software has no "master control" (like Microsoft does) no one can control when a "release" is done, and everything is out in the open.

Of course, Microsoft also releases buggy software with version after version... they just call them 'patches'.

OTOH, with open source, you are less likely to get software released before it's ready to meat management's unrealistic schedule (e.g. Vista).
 
I think mobile apps are blazing a middle path. Not free, but practically free. And a few million downloads can pay some software engineers very nicely.
 
Was just thinking (idly) about the open vs closed models. Would you say Science (as we do it today) is open or closed? Which side of the see-saw does it fall on?

Is there some basic connection between secrets and survival?
(Do we always have to have patents and closed-source and protected ideas in order to advance? )

In reverse, is there no way that we could open everything? Is there some prisoner's dilemma kind of thing that spells doom for the overly open and trusting model?


The one thing I know about programming is that reinventing the wheel is dumb. Think API's and libraries; so many repeat each other.
Fropen code is pretty bad at this in places. Is closed code better? (I doubt it.) If we threw open all the algorithms and specs, could we boil down these repeated wheels to a small efficient set?


Just musing.
 
Lamuella, my apology. I was using 'Linux' wrongly as a blanket for open source software - and assumed you meant Linux too.

My bad.

I still think I have a point re fropen software used as I described by normal users as not being any harder or complex than proprietary versions. (The list in my prev post.)

thats the false analogy though, if you use gimp, openoffice, ccleaner, anything from sourceforge on windows, the infilitration has already begun...
 

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