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Wikileaks

little grey rabbit said:
Muhahaha - the actual version of one of the cables being reported as fact



We have here a snapshot of how American diplomats view the world and the dubious evidence the Great Satan throws up being reported as fact - in some ways it is almost in their interests to leak this database
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So then you believe that the canles are all actually real at least, right LGR?

So the question is why would Iran buy 19 missiles of an untested design?

There are several reasons to do so, one of which you and bill might admire.
Buying such a system would allow for much doubt, from other countries, that the sale actually occured. (which is exactly what the cable LGR quotes is outlining)
Second, although the design may have bugs in it the Iranians have an advanced technical infrastructure quite capable of modifying a system to make it work better. This has been done before by other countries, Israel for eg. based the Kfir on the Mirage.
The N.Koreans get what they need, money, and the Iranians get to skip several steps in missile design. Part of the argeement could easily involve the Iranians keeping the N.Korean designers informed of design modifications that are made.

The Russians would know all this, but will still run up against the wall of no direct proof of the sale. Perfect if you are an Iranian arms negotiator.

,,, or is this not cloak and dagger black op enough for the resident 9/11 conspiracists?
 
bill smith said:
Well Orphia, if Assange IS a Shill for the Americans would you really expect him to say anything else ?
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Do you suppose that if Assange is not a shill for the USA that he would not say what he did?

Interesting and dextremely useful leak for the Americans today I note. A nice little wedge was driven in between China and North Korea.

With enemies like Wikileaks who needs friends. lol
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In truth (you know that word you bandy about so much, bill) the cables illustrate that a wedge has been developing between N.Lorea and China for some time now due to the behaviour of N.Korea.

N.Korea is acting like a "spoiled child" and the N.Korean nuclear program "threatens world peace" are attributed to Chinese leaders comments in the leaked cables.
 
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bill smith said:
Well Orphia, if Assange IS a Shill for the Americans would you really expect him to say anything else ?

Interesting and dextremely useful leak for the Americans today I note. A nice little wedge was driven in between China and North Korea.

With enemies like Wikileaks who needs friends. lol
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Care to not address my post? Too afraid?
 
jaydeehess said:
Do you suppose that if Assange is not a shill for the USA that he would not say what he did?
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around this: In bill's mind, if he says he's a shill, he's a shill, and if says he's not he's still a shill because of course he'd say he wasn't a shill if he was. That' makes bill think he's right no matter what Assange says. Or something like that.

The logic is inescapable :boggled:
 
little grey rabbit said:
More and more President Ahmedinejad is cementing his reputation as a keen observer and commentator on world events
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Very interesting LGR. It seems that I am not alone in thinking that Wikileaks is an American government operation. Ahmedinejad virtually says so in that exerpt that you posted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/middleeast/30iran.html

Unfortunately the Americans must know that the whole thing is totally obvious to any critical observer. It can't last so it may well be that action against Iran is close at hand before the cat gets completely out of the bag.
 
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twinstead said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this: In bill's mind, if he says he's a shill, he's a shill, and if says he's not he's still a shill because of course he'd say he wasn't a shill if he was. That' makes bill think he's right no matter what Assange says. Or something like that.
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You can't because it's not logical, the position is only maintained by a leap of faith.
 
bill smith said:
As you can see I am not afraid not to address your post.
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Stop being faceitious. I was referring to my reply to your post of Google's "censorship." I will post it again for you:

"Censorship can only be done by governments. And also, if Google doesn't have something you want, that's censorship? Hypocrite pie much?"
 
bill smith said:
I suggest that you look on Google.If you can't find it there very easily then it is being censored.
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Once again, Google is NOT the be-all end-all to research! Ever hear of a library? Maybe you should try visiting one sometime!
 
bill smith said:
Very interesting LGR. It seems that I am not alone in thinking that Wikileaks is an American government operation. Ahmedinejad virtually says so in that exerpt that you posted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/middleeast/30iran.html

Unfortunately the Americans must know that the whole thing is totally obvious to any critical observer. It can't last so it may well be that action against Iran is close at hand before the cat gets completely out of the bag.
Click to expand...

,,,,,,,but the docuements and cables are all real, right?

I asked LGR this question and so far he has demured.

I mean for instance, has China denied that any of their officials referred to Kim Jong Il as acting like "a spoiled child" in cables to American gov't?

Would not a quote like that suggest that China was growing weary of supporting N.Korea?
 
I wonder how well the whole "Wikileaks is a U.S. psyop" fantasy will hold up when the next big leaks are finally published...

Via Slashdot:

Atmanman writes: "When WikiLeaks announced it was releasing 251,287 US diplomatic cables, we all thought we knew what was meant by its earlier ominous words that, 'The coming months will see a new world, where global history is redefined.' It now appears the organization is sitting on a treasure trove of information so big that it has stopped taking submissions. Among data to be released are tens of thousands of documents from a major US banking firm and material from pharmaceutical companies, finance firms and energy companies."
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jaydeehess said:
So then you believe that the canles are all actually real at least, right LGR?So the question is why would Iran buy 19 missiles of an untested design?

There are several reasons to do so, one of which you and bill might admire.
Buying such a system would allow for much doubt, from other countries, that the sale actually occured. (which is exactly what the cable LGR quotes is outlining)
Second, although the design may have bugs in it the Iranians have an advanced technical infrastructure quite capable of modifying a system to make it work better. This has been done before by other countries, Israel for eg. based the Kfir on the Mirage.
The N.Koreans get what they need, money, and the Iranians get to skip several steps in missile design. Part of the argeement could easily involve the Iranians keeping the N.Korean designers informed of design modifications that are made.

The Russians would know all this, but will still run up against the wall of no direct proof of the sale. Perfect if you are an Iranian arms negotiator.

,,, or is this not cloak and dagger black op enough for the resident 9/11 conspiracists?
Click to expand...

Not even the Illuminati forges 250 000 cables - but that doesnt necessarily mean they haven't been spiked with some useful misinformation - and that doesn't necessarily mean Wikileaks would be aware of this.

However, I have no doubt that that this particular cable is genuine.

Back in 2002 everyone was convinced that the Iraqis were buying uranium from Niger - it turned out that the intelligence that this conviction was based was entirely bogus.

Here American diplomats seem to be concerned about some missiles from North Korea to Iran. Russians simply pointed out they have never heard of this missile system and doubted it existed. This leaves the most likely conclusion that the alleged order of missiles was as solidly based in reality as the order of yellowcake.

US diplomats are not being dishonest (or not necessarily), they are simply acting honestly on bogus information deliberately provided.

This points out the limitation that leaking this type of material provides. We shouldnt expect to see extreme misconduct recorded because the actors of supreme misconduct keep themselves hidden or record themselves as acting with utmost propriety.

I think deliberately forging documents regarding uranium ore sales was, in the circumstances, serious misconduct. Yet the US government can quite correctly say there is nothing in their files or archives that would show such a forgery being commissioned or requested or even knowingly used as a forgery.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Back in 2002 everyone was convinced that the Iraqis were buying uranium from Niger - it turned out that the intelligence that this conviction was based was entirely bogus.
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A problem they could have completely sidestepped if only they'd thought to plant WMD in Iraq.

I guess they were in Stupid Mode as opposed to Brilliant Mode like on 9/11.
 
CHF said:
A problem they could have completely sidestepped if only they'd thought to plant WMD in Iraq.

I guess they were in Stupid Mode as opposed to Brilliant Mode like on 9/11.
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Can't make it TOO obvious! :boxedin:
 
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