Wi-fi allergy

Slightly off topic, but I have had interesting experiences with high voltage power lines, but nothing quite as dramatic as Jekesteele's experience.

When I was riding my bike along the trails under some large high voltage power lines (at Memorial Park, if anyone's familiar with Houston) I felt a strange sensation on my hands. At first I thought it was an insect sting, but it was persistent. I soon noticed that it happened only when I touched metal on my bike.

I don't recall whether it stopped when I was no longer moving. If so, I think that a metal object (the bike) moving through a strong EM field (from the power lines) induced a small current. or something like that, my recall of physics is a little rusty and I'm not going to spend a lot of time googling just for one little anecdote.

I do know enough to doubt very seriously that EMF allergies are anything but a product of the sufferer's imagination.
 
phildonnia said:
Break out the tinfoil hats again.

Heard about this on the radio, from a credulous talk-show host, citing a credulous local news source. Steve Miller* gets sick from WiFi signals. My first thought was that Wi-Fi sensitivity is along the same lines as "multiple chemical sensitivity", (and about a thousand times less plausible.)

I googled "Wifi allergy" and despaired. I'm torn between derision and pity for people who probably suffer from treatable anxiety, but will never believe it.

The classic sign of psychosomatic illness is that it only occurs when you know that the stressor is present. The fact that Steve Miller does not suffer debilitating effects from other, more powerful but less visible EM radiation suggests that is the case here.

I wonder if some kind of skeptic challenge could be offered for people who claim they can sense low-power microwave signals?

*Someone make a "Fly like an Eagle" joke so we can just get it over with.
Click to expand...

Its not the same Steve Miller of Fly Like an Eagle. This guy is a British DJ.



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2552553/Wi-fi-waves-make-top-DJ-Steve-Miller-sick-Steve-Miller-aka-Afterlife.html
 
blutoski said:
It's possible that you're not familiar with blinded testing. What you did is called 'confirmation-seeking,' not 'testing'.

The purpose of an experiment is to distinguish between different hypotheses. I would suggest that the two hypotheses involved are:

  • the symptoms you report are result of EMF
  • the symptoms you report are result of personal belief

The best way to resolve the two competing hypotheses is to blind yourself. You can both see and hear these EMF sources, so the only way to eliminate personal belief is to structure the test so you're unable to guess whether you're actually near or far away from these sources.

This is similar to divining experiments, so I can suggest a protocol.

  • identify a candidate EMF source.
  • calibrate yourself without blinding, such that you can be sure that when you're near the source you feel the effects, and that when you're far from the source, you don't feel the effects
  • blind your senses (hearing, sight, smell, motion) so that you're down to feeling for the effects themselves
  • get a colleague to flip a coin to decide whether you go to a 'near' location or a 'far' location (potential for information leakage here if your colleague tries to 'help you out' - mitigation would be to employ a disinterested assistant)
  • repeat the near/far run about 20 times to get statistical power
  • if you are not correct 14/20 times or more, it is unlikely that EMF is actually causing the effects
  • restated, if you are correct 13 times or fewer, it is likely that the effects originate in your personal beliefs
Click to expand...

I believe you are referring to 'confirmation bias'. I was seeking confirmation, or not, for this experience I was having going under the lines. I was able to find two distinct lines of demarcation that were approximately equidistant from one an other in relation to the lines.

It's like doing an experiment over and over again to test the validity of the theory.

It's like if you throw a rock at a hornet's nest one day and the hornets chase you and sting you, and you decide to test that by throwing rocks at them 20 days in a row and you get chased every single time and stung 10, the other 10 you outran them, you can say three things:

1. When you throw rocks at a hornet's nest they will chase you.

2. Approximately 50% of the time they will sting you.

3. However, the results of this small sampling are not necessarily indicative of the whole.
 
jakesteele said:
I was seeking confirmation, or not, for this experience I was having going under the lines. I was able to find two distinct lines of demarcation that were approximately equidistant from one an other in relation to the lines.
Click to expand...

You were indeed able to repeat the experience. I have no doubt that you have these symptoms.

However, the experiment does not help you distinguish between different plausible causes.

It's premature to say that you are sensitive to EMF at this point. Particularly since the history of people with this experience who are tested show that it is necessary for them to be consciously aware of their proximity to triggers, rather than merely be near them.

The benefit is that the cognitive model offers a long-term permanent solution that both allows symptoms to abate and also does not restrict your activities.

Whereas, the physical model offers symptom relief coupled with restriction of activities.

The former looks much more attractive.
 
What do you think would happen if one of these Wi-Fi sensitive people was invited into a home where there was a Wi-Fi router, but pointedly turned it off before they entered the premises?

... but didn't turn off Wi-Fi they don't know about? The one that's actually working but is hidden under a box. And that you're using to browse the 'net with, because the ethernet cable going to the laptop is actually plugged into the router that's turned off.

I'll bet they'd thank the homeowner for being so considerate in turning off Wi-Fi, all the while completely unaware there actually is a functioning unit in the area.
 
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Sounds like you speak from experience.

I feel truly sorry for the people that have these mental problems.
 
phildonnia said:
Break out the tinfoil hats again.

Heard about this on the radio, from a credulous talk-show host, citing a credulous local news source. Steve Miller* gets sick from WiFi signals.
<snippage>
*Someone make a "Fly like an Eagle" joke so we can just get it over with.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you meant to say: "Wi-Fi like an Eagle".



































There, happy?
 
NewtonTrino said:
Sounds like you speak from experience.

I feel truly sorry for the people that have these mental problems.
Click to expand...

I have no direct experience with this sort of thing, since my social circle is quite small. But I am reminded of an incident where a huckster was marketing a device known as the "Sniffex". It was a dowsing-like machine that was claimed to be able to detect explosives.

The military, to whom the device was being marketed, brought the inventor to a base for some trials. At one point a large truck was driven into the testing area, even pulling to a stop right beside the testing group. Unknown to both the inventor and the people conducting the trial, the truck was filled with explosives. The Sniffex registered nothing.
 
Wifi allergy? I just turned on my internet and sneezed. Sorry. I know that was terrible.

From what I can tell, all of the claimed symptoms are non-specific (e.g., fatigue, headaches, etc.) leading one to think it is probably psycho-somatic. Although, I realize not all non-specific responses aren't actual medical conditions.

It might be helpful for Steve "Some people call me a space-cowboy" Miller* to talk to a doctor.

*It wasn't a Fly Like An Eagle reference.
 
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To be fair, standing right in the middle of a power stepdown station isn't standing in front of a wifi router or a microwave - if the field can light up a fluorescent bulb all by itself I find it much more plausible that it's strong enough to affect someone for real.
 
jay.tarnoff said:
Wifi allergy? I just turned on my internet and sneezed. Sorry. I know that was terrible.

From what I can tell, all of the claimed symptoms are non-specific (e.g., fatigue, headaches, etc.) leading one to think it is probably psycho-somatic. Although, I realize not all non-specific responses aren't actual medical conditions.

It might be helpful for Steve "Some people call me a space-cowboy" Miller* to talk to a doctor.

*It wasn't a Fly Like An Eagle reference.
Click to expand...

I pointed this out before but this a different Steve Miller.

http://mashable.com/2009/07/28/wifi-allergy/
 
NewtonTrino said:
Sounds like you speak from experience.

I feel truly sorry for the people that have these mental problems.
Click to expand...

Well, to give jakesteele the benefit of the doubt, at this point all we can say is that the information is not conclusive, but prior similar situations didn't pan out for the patients.

I think we're all willing to change our minds if it turns out he can feel ill effects of EMF without other cues.

It'd be one for the journals of course. But that's why we have journals.
 
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