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Wi-fi allergy

phildonnia

Master Poster
phildonnia
Joined
Oct 20, 2001
Messages
2,439
Break out the tinfoil hats again.

Heard about this on the radio, from a credulous talk-show host, citing a credulous local news source. Steve Miller* gets sick from WiFi signals. My first thought was that Wi-Fi sensitivity is along the same lines as "multiple chemical sensitivity", (and about a thousand times less plausible.)

I googled "Wifi allergy" and despaired. I'm torn between derision and pity for people who probably suffer from treatable anxiety, but will never believe it.

The classic sign of psychosomatic illness is that it only occurs when you know that the stressor is present. The fact that Steve Miller does not suffer debilitating effects from other, more powerful but less visible EM radiation suggests that is the case here.

I wonder if some kind of skeptic challenge could be offered for people who claim they can sense low-power microwave signals?

*Someone make a "Fly like an Eagle" joke so we can just get it over with.
 
phildonnia said:
Break out the tinfoil hats again.

Heard about this on the radio, from a credulous talk-show host, citing a credulous local news source. Steve Miller* gets sick from WiFi signals. My first thought was that Wi-Fi sensitivity is along the same lines as "multiple chemical sensitivity", (and about a thousand times less plausible.)

I googled "Wifi allergy" and despaired. I'm torn between derision and pity for people who probably suffer from treatable anxiety, but will never believe it.

The classic sign of psychosomatic illness is that it only occurs when you know that the stressor is present. The fact that Steve Miller does not suffer debilitating effects from other, more powerful but less visible EM radiation suggests that is the case here.

I wonder if some kind of skeptic challenge could be offered for people who claim they can sense low-power microwave signals?

*Someone make a "Fly like an Eagle" joke so we can just get it over with.
Click to expand...

I think you're 100% correct. This is considered to be an example of MCS/IEI, and its causes are varied, not always somatization. eg: schizophrenia, borderline or histrionic personality or delusional disorders are other common factors.

Another thread at JREF: [Electrosensitive, She Lives In A Tinfoil Hat]

I did an entry at BCSkeptics for IEI: [IEI]
 
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phildonnia said:
Break out the tinfoil hats again.

Heard about this on the radio, from a credulous talk-show host, citing a credulous local news source. Steve Miller* gets sick from WiFi signals. My first thought was that Wi-Fi sensitivity is along the same lines as "multiple chemical sensitivity", (and about a thousand times less plausible.)

I googled "Wifi allergy" and despaired. I'm torn between derision and pity for people who probably suffer from treatable anxiety, but will never believe it.

The classic sign of psychosomatic illness is that it only occurs when you know that the stressor is present. The fact that Steve Miller does not suffer debilitating effects from other, more powerful but less visible EM radiation suggests that is the case here.

I wonder if some kind of skeptic challenge could be offered for people who claim they can sense low-power microwave signals?

*Someone make a "Fly like an Eagle" joke so we can just get it over with.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to a news story? Or to the radio show?
 
Being able to detect wifi signals out of all the OTHER radiation bombarding people living in a city or even a small town would be on the order of seeing auras.
From the article I read about this guy, he carries a wifi detector with him. Reminds me of when I was a kid, one of the kids I knew claimed that television signals made him sick. But only when a nearby television was on.
 
And yet... All these people who are "allergic" to WiFi carry and use cell phones...

*shakes her head*
 
so woo it has its own wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity
Electromagnetic hypersensitivity (EHS), also electrohypersensitivity or electrical sensitivity (ES), is a condition in which people experience medical symptoms that they believe are caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields. Although effects of electromagnetic fields on the body are established, sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity report responding to non-ionizing electromagnetic fields (or electromagnetic radiation) at intensities well below those permitted by international safety standards. The majority of provocation trials to date have found that sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between the exposure to real and sham electromagnetic fields.
Click to expand...
 
I don't own a cell phone so I can't comment on that specifically. I do know that I am highly sensitive to high power tension lines, those big towers that you can hear hum from a distance.

I first discovered this when I was into jogging 4-5 miles almost everyday. The area I ran had several different routes you could take at your whim.

One day I went down one that had high power lines that the path went directly under. As I got to a certain distance away I began to feel weak and dizzy and a little nauseous. As I pulled out the other side, at almost the exact distance from initially feeling the effects, I started loosing the negative symptoms and then was okay.

I went back that day and 5-6 other times doing multiple tests on each occasion. I measured the distance from where I started feeling the symptoms to the tower, and then measured the distance from the to tower to where the symptoms started to dissipate. The two points from initiation to cessation were almost exactly the same distance and every test I conducted thereafter produced the same results.

Also, I never use the old style CRTs because they fatigue me within 10-15 minutes and it's hard to focus. Using a flat screen pretty much eliminates the problem. I can go indefinetely as long as I take a break every now and then.
 
Well, let's see ... some "WiFi" signals utilize the 2.4 GHz "ISM" band ("Industrial / Scientific / Medical"), near the top of which is the 2.54 GHz operating frequency of the common household microwave oven.

If this Steve Miller gets all messed up around a 1mW 802.11b/g signal, but has no reaction at all when using a 200W microwave oven, then it's woo. But if using a microwave oven puts him in an anaphylatic coma, then he might be a candidate for Mr. Randi's million ... no ... wait ... you can't win the million by "proving" something in a way that would cause harm to yourself or others.

Dash the luck! ;)
 
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jakesteele said:
I don't own a cell phone so I can't comment on that specifically. I do know that I am highly sensitive to high power tension lines, those big towers that you can hear hum from a distance.

I first discovered this when I was into jogging 4-5 miles almost everyday. The area I ran had several different routes you could take at your whim.

One day I went down one that had high power lines that the path went directly under. As I got to a certain distance away I began to feel weak and dizzy and a little nauseous. As I pulled out the other side, at almost the exact distance from initially feeling the effects, I started loosing the negative symptoms and then was okay.

I went back that day and 5-6 other times doing multiple tests on each occasion. I measured the distance from where I started feeling the symptoms to the tower, and then measured the distance from the to tower to where the symptoms started to dissipate. The two points from initiation to cessation were almost exactly the same distance and every test I conducted thereafter produced the same results.

Also, I never use the old style CRTs because they fatigue me within 10-15 minutes and it's hard to focus. Using a flat screen pretty much eliminates the problem. I can go indefinetely as long as I take a break every now and then.
Click to expand...

It's possible that you're not familiar with blinded testing. What you did is called 'confirmation-seeking,' not 'testing'.

The purpose of an experiment is to distinguish between different hypotheses. I would suggest that the two hypotheses involved are:

  • the symptoms you report are result of EMF
  • the symptoms you report are result of personal belief

The best way to resolve the two competing hypotheses is to blind yourself. You can both see and hear these EMF sources, so the only way to eliminate personal belief is to structure the test so you're unable to guess whether you're actually near or far away from these sources.

This is similar to divining experiments, so I can suggest a protocol.

  • identify a candidate EMF source.
  • calibrate yourself without blinding, such that you can be sure that when you're near the source you feel the effects, and that when you're far from the source, you don't feel the effects
  • blind your senses (hearing, sight, smell, motion) so that you're down to feeling for the effects themselves
  • get a colleague to flip a coin to decide whether you go to a 'near' location or a 'far' location (potential for information leakage here if your colleague tries to 'help you out' - mitigation would be to employ a disinterested assistant)
  • repeat the near/far run about 20 times to get statistical power
  • if you are not correct 14/20 times or more, it is unlikely that EMF is actually causing the effects
  • restated, if you are correct 13 times or fewer, it is likely that the effects originate in your personal beliefs
 
vIQleS said:
I agree, apart for the running while blindfolded bit... :D
Click to expand...

Right. I forgot to mention the need to carry scissors.

I actually think the subject should be carried by assistants. The purpose to reduce the number of cues from terrain (eg: maybe there's pea gravel near the tower and grass further away... that sort of thing).
 
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