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Why People Voted For Trump – For Those Who Don't Get It

Without getting too deep into whether or not one approach or another "works", your explanation ends up sounding like, "That guy just robbed a liquor store. We really need to spend more money on schools."

It doesn't play well in rural America.

Perhaps rural America should spend more time reading and thinking outside our bubbles rather than relying on 16 word straw man summaries that merely confirms our biases. :)

I have spent the vast majority of my life in rural America. I was also lucky enough as a kid to often travel outside my local bubble and visit other areas. Sometimes to other portions of rural America, with their own, yet different, bubbles. Sometimes to urban America, with their own bubbles. A few lucky times in my life, i got to travel outside of America altogether.

In my experience, rural America has no great hidden wisdom or insight about "real America". Like most Americans, we often spend most of our lives in our bubble believing that the vast majority of good people think and feel the way we do. We rarely, if ever, challenge those beliefs through exposure to other thoughts and feelings people may have and, largely, we are happy for it.

However, that does not mean that we know better.
 
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TBD: I'm thinking of getting a dog.
Someone else: You should buy a German Shepherd.
TBD: No, it's too big. I'll go for a Great Dane.
Someone else: But that's an even bigger breed?
TBD: TU QUOQUE!! Textbook definition!111!!! FACEPALM

This isn't really accurate. You have TBD dropping in an appeal to an unrelated fallacy. But he's referring to the right fallacy; the problem is that he's applying it to things being said by the cartoon people in his head, not the things actually being said his interlocutors here.

More importantly, he's avoiding the discussion of the hypocrisy itself; the ass-kicking he's giving to various strawmen is simply a diversion from the problem I mentioned. Of course, he doesn't have to talk about it, but it was his choice to respond in the first place. He also warranted that he was exempt from this issue, but never responded to further questioning probing at that claim.

Why should anyone here care about my complaint of hypocrisy? I'm not your mommy. But there's a good reason to care: you may be right that Clinton is untrustworthy, but if you take her emails (the specific point I made) as a reason to vote for Trump over her, and/or are enraged by her email handling but not that of the previous Administration*, your decision process is uninformed or broken. This is a skeptic board; that should concern you.

*As I indicated, The Big Dog went part way here, saying that both Clinton and Powell should be jailed for their email sins. If, as I previously asked, he also thinks they should be joined by Bush, Cheney, and Trump, then he is being consistent - or, to use the moral shorthand, not hypocritical - in regard to this. But either way, it's about more than just one person.
 
Like most Americans, we often spend most of our lives in our bubble believing that the vast majority of good people think and feel the way we do. We rarely, if ever, challenge those beliefs through exposure to other thoughts and feelings people may have and, largely, we are happy for it.

However, that does not mean that we know better.

This. Very well said.
 
No they don't. In general, conservatives want to treat people as individuals rather than members of ethnic groups.

In that case, they'd best get to work, because the party that's supposed to represent them has been overrun by people who will go out of their way to oppress racial and ethnic minorities.
 
In that case, they'd best get to work, because the party that's supposed to represent them has been overrun by people who will go out of their way to oppress racial and ethnic minorities.

Well, even if I were to accept your premise that conservatives oppress (or enact policies which oppress) racial and ethnic minorities (which I don't), I certainly wouldn't believe that conservatives would go out of their way to do so. At worst, conservatives are indifferent to the effect they have on ethnic minorities. For my part, I'm not indifferent, but such issues certainly don't top my list of priorities.
 
They will continue to blame her, Obama, and democrats for the consequences of the failed policies that the GOP and Trump are going to implement.

Pollution is going to go up.
Income inequality will skyrocket.
The market will crash.
There will be a new war or two.
The deficit will be out of control.
Millions will lose health care coverage.

I don't think we have a clear prediction yet, but I'm going to expect that over the next two years, two of those above will not happen: I don't expect a market crash, and I don't expect out of control deficits.

Regarding the market... in the short term, profits for widely held companies will be OK I think. Unions will be crushed, minimum wages will crater, wages and benefits will stall across the board, offshoring will become easier. Taxes will go down. Prices will not drop to accommodate these cost reductions, which means big profits. At least for large and medium caps who can take advantage of the changes. Long run... hard to say. Small caps can't exploit these advantages, so they may be impacted. I'm expecting family businesses to take a hit, for example.

Regarding deficits... the budget can balance nicely for a few years if the government decides to sell public assets and cancel social programs. This carried Russia's budget for almost a decade: selling off state operations one at a time. Pearl Harbour alone's probably worth a fortune, for example.
 
Well, even if I were to accept your premise that conservatives oppress (or enact policies which oppress) racial and ethnic minorities (which I don't), I certainly wouldn't believe that conservatives would go out of their way to do so. At worst, conservatives are indifferent to the effect they have on ethnic minorities. For my part, I'm not indifferent, but such issues certainly don't top my list of priorities.

This is worth asking, then... the OP is saying that Whites don't really like most of Trump's policies, but are willing to take a hit and put up with his lunacy for a few years... in order to stick it to these exact minorities.

That sounds exactly like 'going out of their way'.
 
They disagree with him less than they do with actively offensive candidates like Clinton.

If you are mroe offended by the "deplorables comment" (which was stupid) than you are about bragging about sexual assault, mocking a disabled journalist, inciting violence at his rallies, and accusing Mexicans of being rapists, I really can't be concerned with your preciopus little feelings.

Who is telling them he will get the US out of the trade deals that stripped many of them of their jobs and will encourage "make in US to sell in US" policies.

His products are manufactured in the same countries he attacked.

Which is more attractive to them that Elite Democrats like Clinton, et al offering snake oil like "education and retraining" while favoring MORE job-killing trade deals. They'll take the one who at least tries to be one of them to a degree over the one who looks down her technocratic nose at them.

When "education and training" are snake oil, you don't get to decide how we fix things. When you vote for the guy who is everything you claim to resent simply because he fakes an accent to sound like Archie Bunker, maybe its time you sit back and elt the grown ups fix things.


Who is also saying "no abortion", who won't put up with schools working to dilute their religious influence on their children and who won't put up with attempts to pull down nativity scenes every Christmas.

Except he did his entire life. Yo ucan look at the 70 years of life he lived publicly, or you can look at the past 18 months when he was pandering for your vote.

As a white, Christian male who has never used a racial slur, never advocated physical violence on any innocent person even when I don't approve of their lifestyle choices, and who supports rights for ALL women, not just hyper-progressive feminists I can assure you that you are incorrect. I have been subject to countless slurs and verbal abuse simply for defending societal and cultural norms that have served us well for countless millenia.

That was a lot of words to simply say "I don't get it". A lot of the argument is those "cultural norms" you defend have not actually served us well. At least, not any more.

Read the article and book I suggested and hear their own words. And understand the research that shows their feeling is justified.

I'm well aware of their situation. I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood and have family in some of those "rust belt" cities. That's why seeing them vote against their own interests and what they claim is their morals is so infuriating. I know plenty of guys growing up who got pushed around by rich developers, including Trump, because they had the cash and decided they didn't need to pay for work or adhere to labor laws. I know plenty of folks who lost their jobs because it was cheaper to do it somewhere else.

I agree that both parties left them behind and can empathize with their problems, but it stops when they purposefully did something they knew was self destructive.

And when I talk to them and just let them talk, you can hear what I've been saying. And you see the same thing on the news. And when they acknowledge that everything we say about trump is right and that he couldn't deliver on what he promises, it leaves very few other conclusions to draw than it was about "Others"

The evidence says you're wrong.

The voices in their heads is not evidence

Having run an abrasive and offensive candidate, we will never know that for certain one way or the other. If we had run a better offering, the result would have been clearer.

She ran against Donald Trump. Your claims of "abrasive" and "offensive" are laughable. Especially from people who claim to "not care about political correctness" and "telling it like it is".
 
In my experience, rural America has no great hidden wisdom or insight about "real America".

That brings up a couple of thoughts...

Firstly, that the disrespect obviously goes both ways. Duck Dynasty is the current edition of a long tradition of rural folk wisdom showing up urban stupidity. In my childhood, it would have been Beverly Hillbillies reruns. Pa was always showing those city slickers what fer. I don't ever remember urbanites getting so angry about it they resorted to talk about overthrowing the government. Are urbanites just thicker skinned?


Nevertheless: the concept of a Real America feels relatively new (ie: within my lifetime) and when I look back, I think it's a Tea Party concept. Basically, the concept is that there's Americans who believe X,Y,Z - versus enemies who need to be destroyed at all costs and yeah, just happen to have been born in the USA.
 
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And if people wanted change, explain the incumbency rate in Congress and state legislatures.
 
That brings up a couple of thoughts...

Firstly, that the disrespect obviously goes both ways. Duck Dynasty is the current edition of a long tradition of rural folk wisdom showing up urban stupidity. In my childhood, it would have been Beverly Hillbillies reruns. Pa was always showing those city slickers what fer.


Nevertheless: the concept of a Real America feels relatively new (ie: within my lifetime) and when I look back, I think it's a Tea Party concept. Basically, the concept is that there's Americans who believe X,Y,Z - versus enemies who need to be destroyed at all costs and yeah, just happen to have been born in the USA.

It's not new. It's been there for a long time. The Know-Nothing party is an example from the 19th century but instead of the horrible religion of Islam it was the horrible religion of Roman Catholics.
 
Well, they're right, though, aren't they? After all, CosCos pointed out that objectors to Trump look down on "American values of hard work, honesty, and love of one's country". So hadn't you just better get with the program?
 
This is worth asking, then... the OP is saying that Whites don't really like most of Trump's policies, but are willing to take a hit and put up with his lunacy for a few years... in order to stick it to these exact minorities.

That sounds exactly like 'going out of their way'.

The OP was tl;dr for me. If it was about angry white men voting for Trump, then, to the extent it gave Trump a victory, my guess is it was not do to any desire to stick it to minorities. I think it's because they're just sick of being scolded and hectored and treated like an oppressor. Hell, I feel that way. But I don't want bad things for minorities. I'd just prefer to talk about something else than my alleged privilege, since I believe it's a baseless generalization.
 
So, its about your hurt feelings?

No more than deciding to leave the presence of somebody who is yelling at you is done because of hurt feelings. In my case, it's not cause of hurt feelings. It's because I have better things to do than listen to somebody yelling at me. Especially if he has bad breath.
 
is he then treating you like a second class citizen and when you try to point that out, he calls you a "SJW"?
 
is he then treating you like a second class citizen and when you try to point that out, he calls you a "SJW"?

As a matter of fact, yes, I have been treated like a 2nd class citizen before. Many times. I've never, to my knowledge, treated anybody else like a 2nd class citizen though.
 
Did you really? I know you people like to exaggerate. You probably had it coming. You should have been more respectful.
 
Did you really? I know you people like to exaggerate. You probably had it coming. You should have been more respectful.

Well, I'm treated like a 2nd class citizen here. I don't like to complain about it though. ;)
 
One of the things I have learned from Trump supporters is that none of the ones I have interacted with are racist. They've told me so.

More than that, they don't know any other Trump supporters who are racist. I've been assured, further, that there are no racist Trump supporters, or at most a vanishingly small percentage, presumably some sort of mutants.

But the news gets better; some Trump supporters have solemnly assured us that there is, in fact, no racism at all in the United States. As overjoyed as I would be to hear that, I am conflicted because at least one former local Trump campaign chairwoman said that racism does exist, but only since Barack Obama became President. So I don't know whether there's no racism, or it's just Obama's fault.

Even if I were to bo so cynical and misguided as to believe there were more than two or three racist Trump supporters in this country, though, I will say that the idea that some people have that his electoral win was all, or almost all, due to racism is wrong. It's like saying that the Iraq invasion was all about oil; it's a cartoon of a way to understand why a disaster happened, or how to prevent a similar disaster in the future.
 

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