Why not torture?

[Undesired Walrus]

With the news that Bush is justifying Waterboarding again, the question will inevitably rise again.

Why not torture someone if the information will save lives? Have they not shed their rights by committing crime?

 

[Mirrorglass]

No, they haven't. But I'd be for torture, regardless, if there was good reason to believe it actually would save lives.

 

[fuelair]

Actually, I think by now it has been pretty much discussed out here. However, like gun carrying, I'm sure it will pop back up.

 

[rustypouch]

Besides the ethical issues of causing another human to suffer for your gain, the information gathered through torture is not reliable. People will say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear if it will make the torture stop.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Besides the ethical issues of causing another human to suffer for your gain, the information gathered through torture is not reliable. People will say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear if it will make the torture stop.

Yes, that's kind of the whole point. It should be pretty clear that the investigator want to hear the truth.

But seriously, I understand the problem, but have a hard time believing there are no situations where torture can get you reliable information.

 

[dtugg]

Frankly, I have no problem torturing people like KSM. I would do it myself. Maybe you get good information. If you not, so what. He is a piece of crap responsible for three thousand murders and deserves the suffering.

 

[Sophronius]

Even if torture DID work and saved lives, I still would not approve of it as I feel legalising it would decrease the overall quality of life in that country.

Mind you, there would still be situations where I might be willing to tolerate it, but even then it should still be illegal.

 

[Rufo]

Frankly, I have no problem torturing people like KSM. I would do it myself. Maybe you get good information. If you not, so what. He is a piece of crap responsible for three thousand murders and deserves the suffering.

If you did, and he provided you with names of associates taking part in his actions, would you also torture those to verify the information?

 

[dtugg]

If you did, and he provided you with names of associates taking part in his actions, would you also torture those to verify the information?

No. Not if the only evidence against them was gained though torture. Torture isn't particularly reliable. While I have no problems torturing confessed mass murdering terrorists because I don't care if they suffer, I do have problems torturing people who might be guilty of no crimes.

 

[Alt+F4]

Frankly, I have no problem torturing people like KSM. I would do it myself. Maybe you get good information. If you not, so what. He is a piece of crap responsible for three thousand murders and deserves the suffering.

If someone just gives false information to avoid torture how does that help in getting good information?

 

[dtugg]

If someone just gives false information to avoid torture how does that help in getting good information?

If someone gives no information because he knows he won't be tortured, how does that help in getting good information?

 

[themusicteacher]

No. Not if the only evidence against them was gained though torture. Torture isn't particularly reliable. While I have no problems torturing confessed mass murdering terrorists because I don't care if they suffer, I do have problems torturing people who might be guilty of no crimes.

So we should just torture people because they've done something wrong? You are one sick %@&$; that is cruel and disgusting beyond belief. Let's be sure you never are in charge of anything, ever.

 

[GodMark2]

Yes, that's kind of the whole point. It should be pretty clear that the investigator want to hear the truth.

Far too many people don't actually want to hear "The Truth". They want to hear that their preconceived notions were right all along, so they can justify the actions they already took (like torturing someone).

 

[dtugg]

So we should just torture people because they've done something wrong? You are one sick %@&$; that is cruel and disgusting beyond belief. Let's be sure you never are in charge of anything, ever.

No, we should torture them to get information. The fact that KSM is a mass murdering terrorist simply means that I couldn't care less about his suffering.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Far too many people don't actually want to hear "The Truth". They want to hear that their preconceived notions were right all along, so they can justify the actions they already took (like torturing someone).

Certainly you can't torture someone and expect to reliably learn whether they are guilty of a crime worthy of torture.

But the question was about torturing in an attempt to get life-saving information, when we already know the torturee has that information. The classic example is finding a kidnapped child. It doesn't seem likely to me that the torture would desire to hear a false location over the true one.

 

[Baylor]

Why not torture someone if the information will save lives? Have they not shed their rights by committing crime?

Sometimes. The torture and murder of Oskar Dirlewanger was justified. His torture and murder was one of the few justified killings of WWII.

 

[Rufo]

Sometimes. The torture and murder of Oskar Dirlewanger was justified. His torture and murder was one of the few justified killings of WWII.

Was any information extracted from him by torture, or are you arguing that the torture was justified simply as retribution?

 

[Mirrorglass]

Sometimes. The torture and murder of Oskar Dirlewanger was justified. His torture and murder was one of the few justified killings of WWII.

Nonsense. There are situations where torture and murder are understandable, but they are never justified.

 

[Baylor]

Was any information extracted from him by torture, or are you arguing that the torture was justified simply as retribution?

As retribution. He was one of the worst Nazi's to wear a uniform. It can give some Jews some satisfaction that his man paid for at least some of this crimes.

 

[TraneWreck]

Besides the ethical issues of causing another human to suffer for your gain, the information gathered through torture is not reliable. People will say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear if it will make the torture stop.

Yep, that's it.

We shouldn't do barbaric things unless they are 1) necessary and 2) effective.

Torture is neither necessary nor effective.