Why is prostitution illegal?

[JFrankA]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle
It is not really a porn flick though. It is a dramatic movie with on screen ejaculation and penetration.

Can I have this for my sig.?

Well, you could, but that would mean that you could be harrassing anyone who reads your sig.......



...sorry, I couldn't resist.....

 

[kerikiwi]

The argument that prostitution should be illegal because some desperate women turn to it to support their addictions and/or children falls flat on its face when you consider that by closing even that avenue to such women, you are making them even more desperate.
The analogy with kidnapping and forcing an individual into either cleaning cars or being raped also falls flat on its face. Kidnapping is illegal. Rape is illegal. The law already regards one as worse than the other.
Economic coercion applies to everyone in every job to varying degrees. I am coerced into going out to work. I choose a different line of work from most other people. The operative word is 'choose'.
If a man or woman chooses to earn their money by selling sex, it should be nobody else's business.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

The argument that prostitution should be illegal because some desperate women turn to it to support their addictions and/or children falls flat on its face when you consider that by closing even that avenue to such women, you are making them even more desperate.
The analogy with kidnapping and forcing an individual into either cleaning cars or being raped also falls flat on its face. Kidnapping is illegal. Rape is illegal. The law already regards one as worse than the other.
Economic coercion applies to everyone in every job to varying degrees. I am coerced into going out to work. I choose a different line of work from most other people. The operative word is 'choose'.
If a man or woman chooses to earn their money by selling sex, it should be nobody else's business.

I think the point is there will always be desparate women (and men) who will not pass the entry requirements for a clean, expensive and regulated brothel. I.e. legalising prostitution may not help the people most in need of help.

For example, if a woman is turning to prostitution to feed a drug habit, I doubt she would pass the entry requirements of a regulated brothel.

 

[kerikiwi]

I think the point is there will always be desparate women (and men) who will not pass the entry requirements for a clean, expensive and regulated brothel. I.e. legalising prostitution may not help the people most in need of help.

For example, if a woman is turning to prostitution to feed a drug habit, I doubt she would pass the entry requirements of a regulated brothel.

Without a doubt. But how are such people helped by denying the right of other people to choose how they earn their money?

 

[fagin]

I agree with you on all that, except that heroin (at least in its pure form, morphine) is deadly. It is not. I know several people who have tried it, and lived, and didn´t even get hooked. And according to Slingblade, the existence of these "responsible users" would mean that heroine (or morphine) would have to be legalised, wouldn´t it?

(now I see that you said "in sufficient dosage". Yes, like anything else, water, salt, sugar, anything. But you don´t mean that do you?)

Of course sex is not inherently dangerous. What I´m saying is that if society allows for the commercialization of sex, perhaps THAT could be dangerous. Or at least not very coherent with the rest of societal laws.

Oh, and what I said about Germany and compelling women to work in brothels not to lose benefits seems to be false. Apparently it was based on an article that speculated on the possibility that it could happen, which snowballed. http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

No I didn't, that's just being pedantic, and you know it. It is relatively easy to take an overdose of heroin, somewhat harder to od on sugar.
But I believe that legalising all drugs would be beneficial, as then the supply, quality and results could be monitored. I have no desire to try the stuff, but if I did, it is easy enough to get. Just illegal and dangerous.
So legalised it would have the same inherent effect, just legal, and with the criminals removed.
Look at dope shops in Amsterdam - generally civilised and pleasant places, not dens of iniquity.

 

[fagin]

ps what 'societal laws'. It's called the worlds oldest profession.

 

[I Ratant]

:It is not really a porn flick though. It is a dramatic movie with on screen ejaculation and penetration.

.
Penetration, THEN ejaculation!
This question will be on the exam!

 

[Marcus]

I think the point is there will always be desparate women (and men) who will not pass the entry requirements for a clean, expensive and regulated brothel. I.e. legalising prostitution may not help the people most in need of help.

For example, if a woman is turning to prostitution to feed a drug habit, I doubt she would pass the entry requirements of a regulated brothel.

I can see this scenario. You have a man who can not afford a nice brothel, and a woman who wouldn't qualify for one. A mutual encounter would provide one sex, and the other money. How is this bad? Saying she needs the money for a drug habit is a cop out. She could need the money to feed her children. How do the current laws(where it is illegal) make life better for either party?

 

[fagin]

Part of the problem seems to be mixing law and morals. If poverty and drug addiction are the issues, then legal prostitution frees up police etc to work on the nasty bits that plague the business, some of which would be alleviated anyway if prostitutes had the normal protection of society.
Poverty and drug addiction will not go away, whether prostitution is legal or illegal.
The result of 'crimes' such as prostitution and drug addiction, if there are any, are generally generally suffered by the person committing the crime,
And I exclude effects on family etc, as there are many forms of legal self destructive behaviour, which can be just as devastating.
These laws essentially protect people from themselves, which is demeaning.

 

[Dogdoctor]

.
The result of 'crimes' such as prostitution and drug addiction, if there are any, are generally generally suffered by the person committing the crime,
And I exclude effects on family etc, as there are many forms of legal self destructive behaviour, which can be just as devastating.
These laws essentially protect people from themselves, which is demeaning.

Drug addicts commit frequent crimes to pay for their drugs.

 

[fagin]

Drug addicts commit frequent crimes to pay for their drugs.

A lot of the cost of drugs is hiding from the law. If grown/produced, transported and sold legally the cost would reduce dramatically. And as those who did become addicts (drugs can be used in the same way as alcohol, without becoming an alcoholic). Addicts would no longer be automatic criminals, and the problem could be dealt with rationally and in the open.
I doubt many people would try heroin, even if it was available.
The harder drugs are scary things, but they are already there. The people who want them will get them. Why make some columbian scumbucket rich. Make it legal and it's just a commodity.

 

[kerikiwi]

Drug addicts commit frequent crimes to pay for their drugs.

While I cannot quote any statistics, i think it would be a safe bet that alcoholics do not commit as many crimes to pay for their drugs as addicts of illegal drugs do.
That is because, though worse than illegal drugs in its effects on its vicitms and those close to them, it is legal.
Addicts of illegal drugs commit a crime simply by buying them, whether or not with money gained by legal means.

 

[Magenta]

Prostitution should be legal for the same reason as drugs. Making it illegal causes more problems than it solves (and is pointlessly anti-liberty because of this). Maybe prostitution is a horrible thing but it STILL HAPPENS anyway, so why not give these women the full protection of the law? I'm just a practical person that wants to lower suffering in the world, making more stuff illegal just doesn't help at all. I think there were some earlier threads where some good idea were talked about in terms of STD testing cards etc.

Exactly. Prostitution in my state (Queensland) was legalised after a long-running enquiry into high level corruption in the police force and government. Making "vice" (i.e. prostitution, drugs, gambling) illegal only creates opportunities for organised crime, IMO, and that can't flourish without corruption. I think you then end up with a worse situation than the "crime" itself.

 

[pgwenthold]

I can see this scenario. You have a man who can not afford a nice brothel, and a woman who wouldn't qualify for one. A mutual encounter would provide one sex, and the other money. How is this bad? Saying she needs the money for a drug habit is a cop out. She could need the money to feed her children. How do the current laws(where it is illegal) make life better for either party?

This is something I don't quite understand. OK, let's grant that currently things are bad in the prostitution industry in the US. 70% of prostitutes are getting raped, and there are drugs and human trafficking.

How would things get worse if it were legal? Would more be on drugs because of the legal brothels? Would there be more rape? More human trafficking? Because that must the argument, because otherwise it would be an argument in favor of legalization.

Even if only half of the current prostitutes move to legal brothels, that means there are still only half as many out in the streets working for pimps in dangerous situations. Isn't that still better than the situation that we have now? Yes, there might be child prostitution on the streets (because they can't work legally); however, there is already child prostitution! Why would legalizing it cause more?

 

[slingblade]

And according to Slingblade, the existence of these "responsible users" would mean that heroine (or morphine) would have to be legalised, wouldn´t it?

I said no such thing. I never even commented on drug use, except to say it's illegal in a brothel.

Stop attributing the comments of others to me. You appear to have quite the reading difficulty. I'd see someone about that, if I were you.






christ, he doesn't read or respond to what I do write, and he crits me for crap I never said....

 

[kerikiwi]

christ, he doesn't read or respond to what I do write, and he crits me for crap I never said....

Now, now. It's not crap...

 

[Abooga]

I said no such thing. I never even commented on drug use, except to say it's illegal in a brothel.

Stop attributing the comments of others to me. You appear to have quite the reading difficulty. I'd see someone about that, if I were you.






christ, he doesn't read or respond to what I do write, and he crits me for crap I never said....

Again?

 

[Abooga]

I´ve already said I´d favour legalisation, if it really did solve all those problems.

But I don´t agree with those of you who say sex work "is just like any other work". It only is like that when it´s done totally freely and consensually.

But often is not and there is some degree of coercion.

And coercion into having sex is not the same thing as other forms of coercion. (proven by the fact that there are specific laws for sexual harassment and rape)

Do you follow?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

This is something I don't quite understand. OK, let's grant that currently things are bad in the prostitution industry in the US. 70% of prostitutes are getting raped, and there are drugs and human trafficking.

How would things get worse if it were legal? Would more be on drugs because of the legal brothels? Would there be more rape? More human trafficking? Because that must the argument, because otherwise it would be an argument in favor of legalization.

Even if only half of the current prostitutes move to legal brothels, that means there are still only half as many out in the streets working for pimps in dangerous situations. Isn't that still better than the situation that we have now? Yes, there might be child prostitution on the streets (because they can't work legally); however, there is already child prostitution! Why would legalizing it cause more?

Why are you assuming the total number of prostitutes would stay constant?

Are you sure legalising prostitution and having high(er)-class brothels would not stimulate the market to grow?

 

[Abooga]

I used to work in the land tax department for a government. If my boss had harassed me and given me work from payroll tax, I would be able to say, "That's not my job." If my boss had requested I change departments from land tax to payroll tax, I would be able to say, "No, I work in land tax and there's nothing in my contract that says I am required to change departments," (indeed my contract was specifically for land tax). If my boss had kept asking these things of me I would most definitely have been able to lodge a harassment complaint within the agency, and depending on the severity of the situation and the response of the higher ups, taken my complaint to the police as well.

So, why should the situation be different if my boss wants to change my job description to 'land tax department CSO and sex gimp'?

Would t be the same if:

-Your boss bluntly offers you a raise for sex.
-Your boss offers you to change your job description to 'land tax department CSO and sex gimp'
-Your boss offers you to change your job description to 'payroll tax'

?

The same?

The first would be "sexual harassment" by all standards, and the last would not by any standard.

What I´m trying to show is that the second, although being in essence like the first, if 'land tax department CSO and sex gimp' were a legal job, then technically it wouldn´t be sexual harassment.

Or would it? In that case sex work is not "just like any other work"...