Why doesn't the US do something about mass shootings?

[Jrrarglblarg]

People in UK and Europe seem to see the US states as giant counties or something, but at many levels the State of Ohio (f'rinstance) is an independent entity just as, say, Belgium is an independent State.

 

[Planigale]

The Japanese rounded up in the US were American citizens. Unless the Germans rounded up in Britain were British subjects of German descent, rather than German citizens who just happened to be in Britain, the comparison fails.

Whoops there went the royal family!

 

[Planigale]

Actually, it's just kind of extrapolating ignorance.

The Bill of Rights -- as anyone who was paying attention in US Government class can tell you -- does not only apply to US citizens.

None of the Guantanamo detainees are "literally charged with bearing arms to resist the US government." They are literally charged with offenses such as providing material support for terrorism, murder, conspiracy, piracy, et al -- crimes which exist in most every jurisdiction worldwide and in international law.

Of course, while we were rounding up Japanese from potential invasion areas, the British had already largely completed arresting, relocating or interning German nationals living in proximity to their invasion beaches. Also interned or at least arrested were those foolish enough to speak out about it as well as most anyone who continued participating in the various organized fascist parties in Britain.

Sorry not being a US citizen or resident never attended US government class so forgive my ignorance. So why did the Bill of rights not apply to Blacks, Indians, women, or those non US citizens that ended up in Gitmo (why did no US citizens end up there?)

The problem is that the US does not have jurisdiction in Afghanistan or Iraq. If it was the Afghan government trying people it is a very different issue from the US government trying people for resisting the invasion of their country by a foreign power.

As has been said the UK detained foreign nationals of hostile countries (and indeed not even all of them - I'll try and find a reference to a retired german general resident in London who successfully appealed his detention) most German jews were never detained. This is very different from detaining your own nationals.

 

[Polaris]

Whoops there went the royal family!

Er, are the royal family considered subjects?

 

[HenryLee]

Why doesn't the US do something about mass shootings? Disparate Impact.

 

[Planigale]

Er, are the royal family considered subjects?

Yes, everyone except the sovereign. Even as far back as Magna Carta (1215) the concept arose that the 'crown' as an institution was separate from the individual as king. Whilst the power of the crown was supreme the behaviour of the king could be constrained.The divine right of kings applied to the institution not the individual. So to an extent even the king was a subject of the crown, but certainly even the royal spouse and children are subjects in the same way as the lowest serf was.

 

[truethat]

People in UK and Europe seem to see the US states as giant counties or something, but at many levels the State of Ohio (f'rinstance) is an independent entity just as, say, Belgium is an independent State.

Also a good point. The 10th Amendment was made for a reason. I think sometimes it doesn't click how HUGE the US really is. It's been amusing to me over the years the way Europeans will act like Americans are idiots because they aren't "well traveled" because they haven't visited different countries. Totally ignoring the convenience in Europe of having different countries an hour away. People in the US who also have different countries an hour a way, generally tend to visit them because it's easy and cheap.

But the US is huge and has many differenct climates and many different states with their own styles of life. It's as different in NYC and New Mexico as it is in London and Cyprus. Many Americans with families are well traveled they just do it within the United States because they don't have to take a transatlantic flight or worry about getting a passport. But mostly because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to do. When we visited family in Cyprus it cost us about $4000 just for plane tickets for three of us. I could have taken my entire family of 5 to Florida and Alaska for the same amount of money.

 

[cullennz]

Also a good point. The 10th Amendment was made for a reason. I think sometimes it doesn't click how HUGE the US really is. It's been amusing to me over the years the way Europeans will act like Americans are idiots because they aren't "well traveled" because they haven't visited different countries. Totally ignoring the convenience in Europe of having different countries an hour away. People in the US who also have different countries an hour a way, generally tend to visit them because it's easy and cheap.

But the US is huge and has many differenct climates and many different states with their own styles of life. It's as different in NYC and New Mexico as it is in London and Cyprus. Many Americans with families are well traveled they just do it within the United States because they don't have to take a transatlantic flight or worry about getting a passport.

That's one of the more silly answers to gun control I have heard.

Just make it federal

 

[truethat]

That's one of the more silly answers to gun control I have heard.

Just make it federal

Again. the 10th Amendment. You need to read up on the Bill of Rights a little bit more. You still are not getting it.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

See if this helps.
http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/201...-can-nullify-federal-gun-control-in-practice/

Here's another one. (This time I'm just grabbing some links off line that seem to explain it well. I haven't vetted the sources)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...latures-move-nullify-federal-gun-laws-n185326

 

[cullennz]

I am sorry but I am thick.

You already have federal gun laws

 

[truethat]

The 10th Amendment, also in the Bill of Rights is used to prevent the federal government from forcing policies on individual states. So this is why when the gay marriage rights were developing it finally took the Supreme Court to step in and rule on this. Prior to that it varied from state to state.

That's why right now the bigger issue in the Presidential election isn't Trump or Clinton, it's that there's a seat to be filled in the Supreme Court and the president will nominate a candidate that will be approved through the process.

If Trump wins, what kind of nominee do you think he'll go for? Either one of the candidates is only really stuck with us for 4 years (maximum 8) but the Supreme Court Justice will shape our country.

 

[cullennz]

Read links. Forget I said that.

It is just stupid

 

[cullennz]

The 10th Amendment, also in the Bill of Rights is used to prevent the federal government from forcing policies on smaller states. So this is why when the gay marriage rights were developing it finally took the Supreme Court to step in and rule on this. Prior to that it varied from state to state.

That's why right now the bigger issue in the Presidential election isn't Trump or Clinton, it's that there's a seat to be filled in the Supreme Court and the president will nominate a candidate that will be approved through the process.

If Trump wins, what kind of nominee do you think he'll go for? Either one of the candidates is only really stuck with us for 4 years (maximum 8) but the Supreme Court Justice will shape our country.

Would have thought it would be Trump asking why he can't use nukes

 

[truethat]

I am sorry but I am thick.

You already have federal gun laws

Yes, but with regulation the state laws will vary. That's what I mean about not realizing how big the country actually is. In THEORY we can debate federal gun laws, but in reality we have whole state governments that will use the 10th Amendment to circumvent the new rules.

Some perspective

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-s.../17/enhanced-buzz-wide-28632-1353103917-7.jpg

Federal representatives

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members


versus the State Government of Texas

Legislature[edit]
Main article: Texas Legislature

The House of Representatives Chamber in the Texas State Capitol
The Texas Legislature is bicameral. The Texas House of Representatives has 150 members, while the Texas Senate has 31. The Speaker of the House presides over the House, and the Lieutenant Governor presides over the Senate. It is a powerful arm of the Texas government not only because of its power of the purse to control and direct the activities of state government and the strong constitutional connections between it and the Lieutenant Governor, but also due to Texas's plural executive.

 

[truethat]

Would have thought it would be Trump asking why he can't use nukes

He'll not be able do these kinds of things without getting people to agree with him. He needs cooperation. That's why I think they are dumb to elect him thinking he's going to make all these things happen.

And again, he can be voted out. But filling the Supreme Court seat will shift the way the Constitution will be interpreted in this country potentially for decades.

How long is the term of a Supreme Court Justice?
The Constitution states that Justices "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." This means that the Justices hold office as long as they choose and can only be removed from office by impeachment.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/faq.aspx

 

[cullennz]

Did you lot chose the most complex political system in the world or did it just morph?

Semi joke

 

[truethat]

I found this Map that might put things into perspective. We have the Federal Government in the US and then we have the State Governments that are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights to have the right to make their own laws for their country. whoops I meant state.

Here is a map that places other countries on the US map so that you can get an idea of what we are dealing with as Country when we are trying to get laws and regulations changed.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_in_2012.jpg

 

[truethat]

Did you lot chose the most complex political system in the world or did it just morph?

Semi joke

Well I think you'd throw us a bone that we have any sort of order at all in this country considering how convoluted it is. But this may well address your OP.

It is SUPER complicated. It's not like the President can just make a law and people have to follow the law. It's not like the state can just make a law and everyone has to follow the law. There are checks and balances all over the dang place and it takes forever to get anything done.

 

[cullennz]

Well I think you'd throw us a bone that we have any sort of order at all in this country considering how convoluted it is. But this may well address your OP.

It is SUPER complicated. It's not like the President can just make a law and people have to follow the law. It's not like the state can just make a law and everyone has to follow the law. There are checks and balances all over the dang place and it takes forever to get anything done.

Thank you.

Genuinely

I have learnt a lot about the frustations from both sides I didn't understand

 

[truethat]

Thank you.

Genuinely

I have learnt a lot about the frustations from both sides I didn't understand

You are very welcome. This is why I always say that Understanding something is not the same thing as agreeing with it. And it's important that people first understand the issues before trying to have an opinion on it.

But as you can see the Bill of Rights impacts a LOT of issues in the US that are not the same elsewhere. You can see that it's much easier to run something in a country that doesn't have two different governments running at the same time.

That's why people were upset with Obamacare. A lot of people think that they are "mean conservatives" that don't care about people but it's that Obama overrode the State governments and made it a federal issue.

So for example, off topic but just to put it into perspective.

NY State had "Child Health Plus" and "Family Health Plus" so the idea that New Yorkers suffered without medical insurance isn't true. The STATE provided free health coverage to people who needed it.

Because New York State has a lot of immigrants and working poor, the state and city decided to provide this for it's residents.

And guess who paid for it? NY State residents through NY State taxes.

When Obama care went into play we took that money from FEDERAL taxes.


Some states got annoyed because it was as if NY State (and others like it) already had a system in place that their residents paid for. So basically we took that bill (bill meaning cost) and handed it to the federal government and now states that don't have the same number of immigrants and people who are uninsured are paying for something that we were already paying for. So for example, MONTANA is now paying for the medical coverage of people living in NY when it was ALREADY BEING PAID FOR by the people who lived in NY.

This map is neato for figuring out the number of immigrants in the US. Hover over the states and it will show you.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-immigrant-population-state-and-county


In addition they felt as if this was one more way for the Government to pry into people's personal lives by forcing them to do something.

It's convoluted and off topic, but if you approach the issue as if it's a bunch of mean old conservatives that don't care about helping the poor, you are completely missing the real issue.