Why do people believe -- any tips?

[Garvarn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

Not to quibble, but that one is within the realm of possibility. With all the nutty things people do, I would believe a well documented case of this.

Hi Jeff,

Of course, I would do too. But that such sects would operate to the extent reported by therapists in the 80s, is not in the realm of possibility, and that even some sects like that operated in the 80s is unbelievable, since no factual evidence whatsoever supported the claims.

But I get your point, and I agree: people do nutty things....

/C

 

[Garvarn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

I mean that reality need not correspond to how we feel it ought to be. Nothing to roll your eyes about with that. It is extremely clear.

So, you have made your position clear, except for one thing: reality doesn't need anything. It is you who need reality to correspond to what you feel it ought to be, since you are not equipped to deal with it as it is.

Again, take care!
/C

 

[Correa Neto]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

I mean that reality need not correspond to how we feel it ought to be. Nothing to roll your eyes about with that. It is extremely clear. [/B]

Then you should have said that, instead of
quote:
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reality can be what it likes
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Since that is something entirely different.

Hans

Exactly. The difference is extremely clear. You should have noticed that.

Your initial sentence was a declaration that reality is an entity, possibly a self-counsient one, and capable of changing itself according to its own will.

Such declarations and lines of reasoning would fit very well at cheap self-help books, posts from Franko or "words of wisdom" from certain esoteric persons.

You are not backing this up are you?

 

[Humphreys]

I just finished Believed-In Imaginings -- The Narrative Construction of Reality. Anyone got any tips on further reading regarding the psychology behind believing the unbelievable?

It would probably be better to say "regarding the psychology behind believing things that probably aren't true, in my opinion".

What's 'unbelievable' or not is completely subjective, isn't it?

Your real question is why some people believe things that you feel are definitely not true, right? And whether they do this because they see the world very differently, or they have emotional issues/needs, or because they are nuts. Or perhaps they are actually sane and you are nuts, etc.

That's what you're actually interested in, yeah?

I do know what you're referring to. Some people believe things that make me despair.

Cheers.

 

[Interesting Ian]

Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

It would probably be better to say "regarding the psychology behind believing things that probably aren't true, in my opinion".

What's 'unbelievable' or not is completely subjective, isn't it?

Your real question is why some people believe things that you feel are definitely not true, right? And whether they do this because they see the world very differently, or they have emotional issues/needs, or because they are nuts. Or perhaps they are actually sane and you are nuts, etc.

That's what you're actually interested in, yeah?

I do know what you're referring to. Some people believe things that make me despair.

Cheers.

Yes, I am in complete agreement with this post. I think basically this is what the original poster meant to say.

 

[Garvarn]

Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

It would probably be better to say "regarding the psychology behind believing things that probably aren't true, in my opinion".

No, because there are things that definitely are not true.

What's 'unbelievable' or not is completely subjective, isn't it?

No, because there are things that definitely are not true.

Your real question is why some people believe things that you feel are definitely not true, right? And whether they do this because they see the world very differently, or they have emotional issues/needs, or because they are nuts. Or perhaps they are actually sane and you are nuts, etc.

No, it is why some people believe things that have no verification in reality.

I do know what you're referring to. Some people believe things that make me despair.

Cheers.

I agree!

/C

 

[Humphreys]

Re: Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

No, because there are things that definitely are not true.

What tells you this is the case?

It is your brain?

No, it is why some people believe things that have no verification in reality.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'no verification in reality'. I suppose you mean that you personally haven't experienced any of these things, or that your brain is telling you they have to be false because they seem ridiculous, or go against other certain things your brain tells you are true.

Cheers.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Instead of using the word "unbelievable", maybe we should use the word "absurd" instead.

Chateaubriand, it's probably not a good idea to try and have a discussion with IIan, as he is not reasonable.

 

[Humphreys]

Instead of using the word "unbelievable", maybe we should use the word "absurd" instead.

Right, because luckily what's considered absurd or not is exactly the same for every sane person in the Universe.

 

[billydkid]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do people believe -- any tips?

I mean that reality need not correspond to how we feel it ought to be. Nothing to roll your eyes about with that. It is extremely clear.

It seems to me that you ought to recite this first sentence to yourself over and over until it sinks in. Generally, we have all learned what constitutes reality through experience and accept it for what it present itself as. You are one of the one's who insist "there must be something more".

 

[Jeff Corey]

Right, because luckily what's considered absurd or not is exactly the same for every sane person in the Universe.

Except for the Existentialists.
Life is absurd.
Existentialialism is part of life.
Ergo, Existentialism is absurd.
Quod erat demonstratum.

 

[Esther]

Esther,

I assume you are a christian, born of christian parents, who may bring you up in the christian culture, just as they were brought up by their parents with the christian culture. Now, assume you were born instead by locals in a muslim culture, a hindu culture or whatever - betcha' you wouldn't be raised a christian then.

Hello Anders.

No, I am not a Christian but I get your point. Religion is part of our culture indeed but never before in our western societies has native culture been challenged so much. People get educated, they travel to other countries, media allow them to see where religious fundamentalism leads and how many troubles it causes , science is expanding our knowledge to areas we couldn't even imagine before and yet people still believe. So, your explanation doesn't seem satisfying. Yes, we are influenced by our culture but we have many opportunities to challenge our culture the smashing majority of people though choose not to when it comes to religion. So it must be something more and something more deep here.

My point is, religion is forced down kids' throats by their parents and, in some cases, teachers and others within the cummunity or culture - they are not really given a choice in the matter; "Hey, kid, wanna believe in a gawd or somethin - choose any". So religion is perpetuated by culture - but the again if you are threatened often enough by your similarly afflicted peers that you won't go to paradise or you will go to hell if you choose to stop for a minute, apply common sense and drop the religious, suppressing bull.

Without having the slightest intent to flame you, allow me to remark that the comment above is really simplistic for the reasons I showed above.

Religion is an easy escape from hardship and unjustness in society "why me? - Gawd's will - gawd works in mysterious ways", rather than actually doing something about the problems, however difficult that task.

Again you over-simplify. Humans' problems are complicated. People would love to take the pill that would cure their illnesses, they would love to look their physicians in their eyes and get good news instead of praying to a ghost and yet some of them have to do it because they do not have an alternative. Do not overlook arrogantly the needs of people as if you observe them through the lense of your microscope.

I think Mao tse Tung was a criminal, but he did get one thing right: Religion is the opium of the people (and then he more or less created a religious cult around his own person - but that's another topic). And like Betrand Russel said (or words to the effect of) - claimg that believers are happier than atheists is like claiming that drunks are happier than the sober.

Marx and Russels were socialists that their ideas threw to misery millions of people in eastern europe. They forced atheism by substituting God with the Communist Party. Not a very succesful example in my opinion.

have taken a long, hard look at religious belief. And dumped it, lock, stock and barrel. And I am the happier for it. I don't need fear of gawd to get me to do the decent thing, I don't need the futile concept of an afterlife standing in the way of enjoying this one. I don't need logic or science to answer questions if logic and science don't have answers - and I don't need leaps of faith to satify my need for a made-up, false answer when the answer currently is: I just don't know. If it's important to me, I'll look for the answer - if I can se by logic and experience that it cannot be answered, then I'll just leave it at that.

Sure. But the smashing majority doesn't feel like that. If the majority believes one thing doesn't mean that it's a right thing but it certainly says something and it doesn't say that the majority is foolish or needs to be locked in to a mental institution as some people in this forum suggest.

BTW, science cannot be arrogant - science is a method for learning about the world, it's not a person or a stance. When people "find science arrogant" it's typically because these people are scientifically illeterate, crave instant gratification or simply don't like the answers science does provide to some questions.

Yes you are right. Science cannot be arrogant. Those who have substituted their belief to God with a belief in Science are those that they can become arrogant and therefore funny, to put it mildly.