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Why Communism is Wrong.

Jack by the hedge said:
The initial question might be is this ideology being pushed and promoted. Please present your evidence for this rather than begging the question.
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I suspect this topic is tied to Trump and Co’s failed attempt to insert fascism into the US government. The idea being promoted here is that if it is not fascism it must be communism by default.
 
The Traveler said:
Think of all the tin pot third world dictators that led all the liberation movements after the end of WW2. The leaders are all as rich as hell while their respective countries are impoverished messes.
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Please list the people you are thinking of, when you find the time. Thanks.
 
The Traveler said:
It has been observed that when just about everyone has become poor then there no longer remains any rich to envy.
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Has this been observed? Where has it been observed? Isn't it more common to find massively unequal states where just about everyone has become poor but there is an obscenely wealthy elite which corruptly grabs all wealth for itself? If it's your premise that such nations are generally communist I would invite you to list them.
 
The Traveler said:
A look at its history will help clarify the real motivations behind this ideology. The international bankers did make a bid for world domination during the Napoleonic wars. They financed all sides of the wars to the point where Europe was so indebted to them that the nations had no way to repay in cash which meant a compromise in the form of the relinquishment in national sovereignty was in the works.
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Have you any non-lunatic historical references for this claim? Pick a country. What aspect of sovereignty did its government propose to relinquish and which bank signalled its willingness to accept it in lieu of payment of its outstanding loans?
 
Personally, I believe that all ideologies are wrong, and trying to push your ideology onto anyone else that doesn't share it is totally wrong. Doesn't matter if it is Communism, Capitalism, Facsim, Libiteranism, Anchary, or any other -ism. If you want to live that way yourself, great, but don't try and force everyone else to abide by your ideals.
 
The Traveler said:
Why Communism is Wrong.

I have written this primarily for students that are going through or just gone through the education system. The promotion of communism without a balanced counter argument does society no favours or service. A rational and balanced opinion about any subject can only be made once all aspects of the topic have been exposed for examination.
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But this is boring! We all know Communism is wrong. Start a thread about why Communism is right. Then we'll talk.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Personally, I believe that all ideologies are wrong, and trying to push your ideology onto anyone else that doesn't share it is totally wrong. Doesn't matter if it is Communism, Capitalism, Facsim, Libiteranism, Anchary, or any other -ism. If you want to live that way yourself, great, but don't try and force everyone else to abide by your ideals.
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I, too, am a firm believer in not holding any firm beliefs.
 
abaddon said:
So Jesus was wrong according to you?
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Wrong about what? Communism?

ETA: I assume by "Jesus" you mean whoever you believe actually wrote the Communist apologetics attributed to Jesus. And I assume you have in mind some actual Communist apologetics that are so attributed.

And honestly? I'd be fascinated by a bible-based argument in favor of the correctness of Marxism-Leninism, and the truth of the prophecy of the Worker's Paradise. Do you have such an argument?
 
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Norman Alexander said:
I'm not arguing for him. Just that commies are supposed to be weaklings who take over everything. Or something.
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They are? Who supposes that? Last time I checked commies were supposed to be - and have thoroughly justified the supposition - ruthless ideologues who will absolutely use force to advance their program. So pretty much the opposite of what Jesus said.

I'm very interested in where abaddon going with this.
 
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theprestige said:
They are? Who supposes that? Last time I checked commies were supposed to be - and have thoroughly justified the supposition - ruthless ideologues who will absolutely use force to advance their program. So pretty much the opposite of what Jesus said.

I'm very interested in where abaddon going with this.
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How about: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", by one K. Marx.

Acts 4:32-35: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.
33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all
34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales
35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
 
theprestige said:
Wrong about what? Communism?

ETA: I assume by "Jesus" you mean whoever you believe actually wrote the Communist apologetics attributed to Jesus. And I assume you have in mind some actual Communist apologetics that are so attributed.

And honestly? I'd be fascinated by a bible-based argument in favor of the correctness of Marxism-Leninism, and the truth of the prophecy of the Worker's Paradise. Do you have such an argument?
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Well, he did take a boy's lunch and give it to everyone gathered there and also fought against capitalism in the Temple. He was pretty big on paying your taxes and not hoarding wealth too.

Later on, all his followers sold their possessions and pooled the money together to allow all to live comfortably.

Sounds sort of socialistic to me.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Well, he did take a boy's lunch and give it to everyone gathered there and also fought against capitalism in the Temple. He was pretty big on paying your taxes and not hoarding wealth too.

Later on, all his followers sold their possessions and pooled the money together to allow all to live comfortably.

Sounds sort of socialistic to me.
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He was calling his disciples to a life of mystical asceticism, at odds with, but coexisting with, the systems of the world. Elsewhere he makes it clear that his purpose is not to change the system of the world, but to offer a new and better system in the next life. This is exactly opposite to Communism, which purports to usher in paradise not in the next world, but in this one.
 
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theprestige said:
I, too, am a firm believer in not holding any firm beliefs.
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Ideology goes beyond a "firm belief" especially when you start trying to enforce those ideals onto other people that don't agree with your ideals. I have little issue with a person having their own firm beliefs and living by their version of a moral code, as long as they don't try and make me live in that way by force of law or arms. Beyond that, all ideologies are wrong simply because no one ideology has all the correct answers to everything, but because people have to stick with their ideological package, they demand that even the bad ideas must be accepted regardless of the harm that they can do. That's stupid. If an idea is bad and harmful then it should be ignored, regardless of how it fits into your ideology, and if an idea is good and works, then it should be adopted, even if it doesn't.
 
theprestige said:
He was calling his disciples to a life of mystical asceticism, at odds with, but coexisting with, the systems of the world. Elsewhere he makes it clear that his purpose is not to change the system of the world, but to offer a new and better system in the next life. This is exactly opposite to Communism, which purports to usher in paradise not in the next world, but in this one.
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No, he didn't. He was the first hippie, if you like. He and his followers lived in a commune together. Nothing mystical about that.
 
Hell, the nuclear family is probably the most communistic social arrangement ever. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need? No better example than the love of parents for each other and for their children.

The problem with Communism is, that doesn't scale. Try to force it on a national level, and you'll end up with atrocities that make capitalism look like a Hallmark movie.

As soon as the ideological fervor you've drummed up starts to fade, your grand socialist family falls apart in the most toxic ways. And while the ideological fervor is running strong? That's when the pogroms happen.

Tell me more about how Jesus endorsed Communist pogroms. What's the Aramaic for "gulag"?
 
PhantomWolf said:
Ideology goes beyond a "firm belief" especially when you start trying to enforce those ideals onto other people that don't agree with your ideals. I have little issue with a person having their own firm beliefs and living by their version of a moral code, as long as they don't try and make me live in that way by force of law or arms. Beyond that, all ideologies are wrong simply because no one ideology has all the correct answers to everything, but because people have to stick with their ideological package, they demand that even the bad ideas must be accepted regardless of the harm that they can do. That's stupid. If an idea is bad and harmful then it should be ignored, regardless of how it fits into your ideology, and if an idea is good and works, then it should be adopted, even if it doesn't.
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Tell me more about your ideology that uses force of law and arms to prevent me from imposing the death penalty on anyone who insults my honor. Tell me more about how this is an ideal you believe in, but would never dream of imposing on someone else.
 
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