Why Are You Voting For Kerry?
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HarryKeogh
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corplinx said:
I'm pro-military and a democrat. Republicans usually screw up wars. We've fared better in military operations under democratic presidents. (and sending troops into ridiculous scenarios is decidedly anti-military)
Please thank your wife for cancelling out your vote.
Brown
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Re: Re: Why Are You Voting For Kerry?
Ford put up with a lot of nonsense during his years, some of it undeserved, some of it deserved. But his role in helping heal the nation after the polarizing damage done by Nixon is remarkable. Jimmy Carter, in his inaguration speech, praised Ford for healing the nation, and this praise came from the heart. The two men who competed for the presidency in 1976 became fast friends. If you go to Ford's museum in Grand Rapids, you will hear the words of Jimmy Carter, followed by warm applause from the spectators thanking Ford for his service.
Ford wasn't colorful, but he was basically an honest, hard-working guy who truly saw himself as a servant of the public. The differences between his administration and Nixon's were like night and day. The USA was lucky to have Ford as the man to succeed Nixon, instead of Spiro Agnew.
Kerry is more dynamic than Ford, but Kerry is thoughtful and has a history of consensus-building. Like Ford, Kerry has a long record of service in the Congress and knows many of its members personally. Kerry, moreso than Bush, could heal the nation after this divisive election.
If Kerry becomes a Ford-like president, that would be a very pleasant development.epepke said:
Ford put up with a lot of nonsense during his years, some of it undeserved, some of it deserved. But his role in helping heal the nation after the polarizing damage done by Nixon is remarkable. Jimmy Carter, in his inaguration speech, praised Ford for healing the nation, and this praise came from the heart. The two men who competed for the presidency in 1976 became fast friends. If you go to Ford's museum in Grand Rapids, you will hear the words of Jimmy Carter, followed by warm applause from the spectators thanking Ford for his service.
Ford wasn't colorful, but he was basically an honest, hard-working guy who truly saw himself as a servant of the public. The differences between his administration and Nixon's were like night and day. The USA was lucky to have Ford as the man to succeed Nixon, instead of Spiro Agnew.
Kerry is more dynamic than Ford, but Kerry is thoughtful and has a history of consensus-building. Like Ford, Kerry has a long record of service in the Congress and knows many of its members personally. Kerry, moreso than Bush, could heal the nation after this divisive election.
corplinx
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Re: Re: Re: Why Are You Voting For Kerry?
Gerald Ford was boring and pragmatic. I like that in a leader. Look at Ed Koch and Joe Lieberman or even Bob Dole. Boring and pragmatic guys. I think the democrat dream candidate in 2008 will be Tennessee governer Phil Bredesen who is boring and pragmatic. I don't think Kerry is in that mold. He's been a radical up until he had presidential aspirations.
Brown said:
Gerald Ford was boring and pragmatic. I like that in a leader. Look at Ed Koch and Joe Lieberman or even Bob Dole. Boring and pragmatic guys. I think the democrat dream candidate in 2008 will be Tennessee governer Phil Bredesen who is boring and pragmatic. I don't think Kerry is in that mold. He's been a radical up until he had presidential aspirations.
DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
If there are topics you prefer not to discuss, then I suggest you not bring them into the discussion.corplinx said:
If my state is actually close (which it looks to be), I'll probably vote Kerry for the following reasons (even though I usually have fun with my vote and check off nutters like the Socialist Workers Party or some other fringe party just for yucks):
- Kerry aligns better with my views socially: I don't want a gay marriage amendment, faith based initiatives, or lack of federal funding for stem cell research.
- Fiscally, I am not much in line with Kerry though.
However, I believe the fiscally conservative Republican is a complete myth. There is no evidence that Bush will be responsible with spending in the next four years. I don't consider cutting taxes during a time of war and inflating the deficit by a large margin for future generations any more fiscally responsible than proposing an expensive healthcare system.
Before you jump all over me about voting against Bush, let me explain my logic in voting for Kerry for fiscal reasons.
Congress is going to remain Republican for at least the next two years, and the House is probably going to remain Republican for the next four. That is one party in power for 8 years in a row in the legislative and executive branches (I pretend that the Supreme Court is mostly neutral.)
Kerry doesn't especially impress me fiscally. However, with a Democratic presidency, there will be tooth and nail fights when budget time comes around. This means there will be no chance of an expensive national health care system, unproven missile defense technology, or any other overly expensive enterprise, since the political risk will be far reaching.
True, if both branches are Republican and they overreach, there may be enough backlash to reverse the party in power. However, I firmly believe it is easier to not put expensive programs in place than to roll them back.
Some other minutae that has me voting for Kerry:
- His campaign does not block oposing viewpoints from attending his rallies. To me, this shows conviction in his views, as he is willing to have public discourse on them. I lament the last series of presidents who have increasing done fewer and fewer press conferences as well, and hope Kerry will return to that tradition, though I admit I don't really have any evidence of that. I presume it can't get worse though.
- While I have little confidence in the UN, I do like Kerry's view on unilateralism. It is not ruled out, but a strong case is to be made for it, and in the case of Iraq, I did not feel that case was strong enough.
- Kerry will be the least buffoonish of the last three presidents if elected. While I wouldn't vote against the previous two for sexual addiction and lack of public speaking ability since they aren't really critical to the job, it would be refreshing to have a president who can speak extemporaneously and is not the butt of penis jokes. I can live with a president who's worst nickname is Lurch.
- Kerry is from the Senate, where viewpoints are debated more openly and positions are defended and argued more publicly than a couple of times before the election. True, his Senate record can be spun to be wishy-washy, but I'm pretty sure it is not that simple. He's stood up to a lot of scrutiny of his record and handled it well, which is the status quo for a president. I bet he won't buckle under the pressure as commander in chief either.
- Kerry aligns better with my views socially: I don't want a gay marriage amendment, faith based initiatives, or lack of federal funding for stem cell research.
- Fiscally, I am not much in line with Kerry though.
However, I believe the fiscally conservative Republican is a complete myth. There is no evidence that Bush will be responsible with spending in the next four years. I don't consider cutting taxes during a time of war and inflating the deficit by a large margin for future generations any more fiscally responsible than proposing an expensive healthcare system.
Before you jump all over me about voting against Bush, let me explain my logic in voting for Kerry for fiscal reasons.
Congress is going to remain Republican for at least the next two years, and the House is probably going to remain Republican for the next four. That is one party in power for 8 years in a row in the legislative and executive branches (I pretend that the Supreme Court is mostly neutral.)
Kerry doesn't especially impress me fiscally. However, with a Democratic presidency, there will be tooth and nail fights when budget time comes around. This means there will be no chance of an expensive national health care system, unproven missile defense technology, or any other overly expensive enterprise, since the political risk will be far reaching.
True, if both branches are Republican and they overreach, there may be enough backlash to reverse the party in power. However, I firmly believe it is easier to not put expensive programs in place than to roll them back.
Some other minutae that has me voting for Kerry:
- His campaign does not block oposing viewpoints from attending his rallies. To me, this shows conviction in his views, as he is willing to have public discourse on them. I lament the last series of presidents who have increasing done fewer and fewer press conferences as well, and hope Kerry will return to that tradition, though I admit I don't really have any evidence of that. I presume it can't get worse though.
- While I have little confidence in the UN, I do like Kerry's view on unilateralism. It is not ruled out, but a strong case is to be made for it, and in the case of Iraq, I did not feel that case was strong enough.
- Kerry will be the least buffoonish of the last three presidents if elected. While I wouldn't vote against the previous two for sexual addiction and lack of public speaking ability since they aren't really critical to the job, it would be refreshing to have a president who can speak extemporaneously and is not the butt of penis jokes. I can live with a president who's worst nickname is Lurch.
- Kerry is from the Senate, where viewpoints are debated more openly and positions are defended and argued more publicly than a couple of times before the election. True, his Senate record can be spun to be wishy-washy, but I'm pretty sure it is not that simple. He's stood up to a lot of scrutiny of his record and handled it well, which is the status quo for a president. I bet he won't buckle under the pressure as commander in chief either.
corplinx
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HarryKeogh said:
Tennessee is up 12 points for Bush. I don't even need to vote slick. My point is that my wife fits that mold you think a GOP voter has. She watches O'Reilly (which drives me insane), she's anti-gay marriage (opposition to which usually conflicts with the 1st amendment and equal protection to me), she is pro-military (and of the two parties the democrat's have as a constiuency the anti-war at all costs crowd).
If I told you her positions on a number of things you would assume she is Bush voter.
Batman Jr.
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I know Kerry is going to take economic advice from Bob Rubin. He even hinted that he might give him back his old job. If there's anyone to fix the deficit and rising poverty numbers, it's Rubin.
corplinx
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Batman Jr. said:
Rubin schmubin. Give me back Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. Bill killed pet projects left and right his first year in office. Newt was the architect of slowing growth of programs. I shudder to think what could have been accomplished in 1994 if Clinton didn't have to oppose Newt and vice versa just out of habit.
Oh yeah, and another tech boom that outgrows government would be nice too. You can't appoint one of those though.
Brown
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Are You Voting For Kerry?
I don't think "radical" aptly describes Kerry as much as it describes Bush. Bush ran in 2000 as "a uniter, not a divider," and got fewer votes than his opponent. The expectation was that Bush would, by necessity, be a moderate and a consensus-builder. Instead, Bush acted as though he had a mandate that he did not really have, abandoned the practice of consensus-building and proceeded on a course that polarized the country. The "uniter, not a divider" business went right out the window. Kerry has a far better shot than Bush at being a uniter.
Edited to correct typos.
Bob Dole would have probably been a good president. He ran as Ford's veep in 1976, and he lost to Clinton in 1996. He vied for the office in other years as well. He was (and still is) basically a pretty good guy. But he got grouchy in public at times, most famously because he was angry at lies told by Elder Bush during the 1988 campaign. This grouchiness gave rise to the notion of a "mean Dole" that was off-putting to some voters, even though Dole's public service in the Senate wouldn't really support such a reputation. In the Senate, he was a classy guy.corplinx said:
I don't think "radical" aptly describes Kerry as much as it describes Bush. Bush ran in 2000 as "a uniter, not a divider," and got fewer votes than his opponent. The expectation was that Bush would, by necessity, be a moderate and a consensus-builder. Instead, Bush acted as though he had a mandate that he did not really have, abandoned the practice of consensus-building and proceeded on a course that polarized the country. The "uniter, not a divider" business went right out the window. Kerry has a far better shot than Bush at being a uniter.
Edited to correct typos.
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DavidJames
Penultimate Amazing
edit - removed comments, not worth it.corplinx said:
Re: Re: Re: Why Are You Voting For Kerry?
Tangentially, Bush.2 makes me downright nostalgic for Bush.1.Brown said:
Pardon me for inerjecting corp... just want to say first, I'm really sorry to hear about your wife's injury. I didn't realize you were serious at first, and it's possible that other readers had the same misconception as me.corplinx said:
Meadmaker
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corplinx said:
Oh, no! I'm agreeing with corplinx!
I think the government as a whole did an excellent job between 1994 and 2000, precisely because it was divided and "suffered from gridlock". Each party blocked out the other, so the only things that could pass were things on which there was a true, broad-based agreement.
I think that is reason enough for voting for Kerry. To bring back divided government!
(But I'll probably still vote for Badnarik. I still hate Kerry's campaign.)
peptoabysmal
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Good post BP.
I won't make any anti-Kerry statements in this thread.
I too, am genuinely interested.
I've seen research that indicates most people vote primarily on one issue. There may be other issues they care about, but they will vote on a single issue.
War, abortion, gay rights, economy, legalize marijuana, second amendment etc.
What issue is most important to you?
I won't make any anti-Kerry statements in this thread.
I too, am genuinely interested.
I've seen research that indicates most people vote primarily on one issue. There may be other issues they care about, but they will vote on a single issue.
War, abortion, gay rights, economy, legalize marijuana, second amendment etc.
What issue is most important to you?
peptoabysmal
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corplinx said:
My wife has a higher I.Q. than I and she was leaning towards Kerry. (Yes, I realize I just gave some joker a straight line to take a shot at me. Go ahead, make my day.)
She was, until the debates and she saw the interaction between Kerry and Teh-ray-zuh after the debates.
WTF does that have to do with the guy being suitable for office?
wimmen... go figure.
