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Why a flood?

TimCallahan

Philosopher
T
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
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Since there are already three flood threads going at the present time, I was originally thinking of putting this question into one of them. However, it would have been a bit off-topic for any other them. So, I'm starting this thread in hopes that DOC, edge or any others who consider the flood a historical event can offer a logical explanation for their god's actions. So, here's the question:

If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
 
TimCallahan said:
Since there are already three flood threads going at the present time, I was originally thinking of putting this question into one of them. However, it would have been a bit off-topic for any other them. So, I'm starting this thread in hopes that DOC, edge or any others who consider the flood a historical event can offer a logical explanation for their god's actions. So, here's the question:

If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
Click to expand...


'Cause GOD
 
I know you're looking for an explanation from a believer, but I'll stick my own opinion in here. This is a story, like so many others, written by priests to terrify the populace.
The more blood thirsty God is, the better.
 
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When I asked a very similar question, a believer speculated "maybe God was trying to make a statement that He really is capable of harsh judgement."

I am shooting in the dark, but I guess it is possible that God did it this way to really bring it home to the Noah clan how dependent they were on God. While the boat was floating around waiting for a bird to return they had some time to think about it all.

Or. God had a lot of washing and cleansing rules. Maybe He thought the Earth needed a symbolic and literal cleansing.
 
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TimCallahan said:
... If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
Click to expand...
Anyone answering that may also wish to explain why not only did all human Egyptians suffer collectively during the Plagues on account of Pharaoh's misdeeds - which God made him commit by "hardening his heart" - but their animals too. So, for example when the firstborn were killed, firstborn domestic animals were included in the slaughter. What was that for?
 
When I last read through the bible, it seemed to me that Yahweh was constrained by certain fundamental rules.
Such as the requirement of sacrifice for atonement.
And limits on how he could intervene. Always in a roundabout way, never directly acting on the main character of the story. God can kill people, but they're always friends/cousins/brothers/spouses/children/etc. But never the person who is being influenced.

You are better-informed than I am on the bible, Tim. Which would make you a better judge of whether that's simply selective memory on my part, or some form of plot device, or something else.

But perhaps the flood was required, because god couldn't directly kill on that scale?
Or maybe it has to do with the gradual decline of his powers and interactions throughout the bible.
 
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TimCallahan said:
Since there are already three flood threads going at the present time, I was originally thinking of putting this question into one of them. However, it would have been a bit off-topic for any other them. So, I'm starting this thread in hopes that DOC, edge or any others who consider the flood a historical event can offer a logical explanation for their god's actions. So, here's the question:

If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
Click to expand...



My reasoning on this as I take other events into consideration is that God wanted to usher in a new dispensation based on a new set of laws that did not exist in the days before the flood. There needed to be laws before God can act!

So the Covenant he made with Noah was intended to be applicable to all humanity that followed. These included as follows:-
Gen 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
Gen 9:4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
Gen 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

The question to be asked is why did God destroy the world as is recorded?
The answer is again as follows:-
Gen 6:12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.
Gen 6:13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

So corruption and violence was the reason—corruption being the violation of the marriage Covenant—men taking any woman they pleased without a fixed union.

Violence the indiscriminate killing of their fellow men.

Jesus refers to the state of life before the flood as similar to the days before the son of man appears in our time.

Even though God did destroy all except those saved—we have quite an array of life today.

Shalom
 
Paul Bethke said:
My reasoning on this as I take other events into consideration is that God wanted to usher in a new dispensation based on a new set of laws that did not exist in the days before the flood. There needed to be laws before God can act!

So the Covenant he made with Noah was intended to be applicable to all humanity that followed. These included as follows:-
Gen 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
Gen 9:4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
Gen 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

The question to be asked is why did God destroy the world as is recorded?
The answer is again as follows:-
Gen 6:12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.
Gen 6:13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

So corruption and violence was the reason—corruption being the violation of the marriage Covenant—men taking any woman they pleased without a fixed union.

Violence the indiscriminate killing of their fellow men.

Jesus refers to the state of life before the flood as similar to the days before the son of man appears in our time.

Even though God did destroy all except those saved—we have quite an array of life today.

Shalom
Click to expand...

What did he have against the animals?

How about the rest of the world that didn't know about his laws?
 
The annual floods in Egypt wiped the slate clean and allowed for a fresh layer of "virgin" soil to be laid down. That was no doubt fascinating to the wandering goat-herders who had seldom seen a river capable of that kind of change. From there it was just a matter of elaborating on the tale around the dungfire.
 
Paul Bethke said:
Violence the indiscriminate killing of their fellow man.
Click to expand...
So a god excuse was invented that indiscriminately killed everything with a violent flood. Sounds like a campfire story made up by unsophisticated bronze age goat herders.

Even though God did destroy all except those saved—we have quite an array of life today.

Shalom
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing that one bit of the fatal evidence against a global flood.
 
TimCallahan said:
Since there are already three flood threads going at the present time, I was originally thinking of putting this question into one of them. However, it would have been a bit off-topic for any other them. So, I'm starting this thread in hopes that DOC, edge or any others who consider the flood a historical event can offer a logical explanation for their god's actions. So, here's the question:

If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
Click to expand...

God likes big dramatic presentations, he could have saved mankind without all that messy Crucifixion thing but no he went for the drama or even the Genesis scene. Why not create humans with an inbuilt sense of right and wrong but god went for the whole talking snake forbidden fruit theme so I think we can conclude that god's a drama queen.
 
X said:
When I last read through the bible, it seemed to me that Yahweh was constrained by certain fundamental rules.
Such as the requirement of sacrifice for atonement.
And limits on how he could intervene. Always in a roundabout way, never directly acting on the main character of the story. God can kill people, but they're always friends/cousins/brothers/spouses/children/etc. But never the person who is being influenced.

You are better-informed than I am on the bible, Tim. Which would make you a better judge of whether that's simply selective memory on my part, or some form of plot device, or something else.

But perhaps the flood was required, because god couldn't directly kill on that scale?
Or maybe it has to do with the gradual decline of his powers and interactions throughout the bible.
Click to expand...

God follows the red shirt rule.


Well god started out able to create the known universe and is now unable to regrow a severed limb and is reduced to appearing in water stains and toast.

Probably needs a better manager.
 
One of the things I think is interesting about the questions in the OP is whether the answers are stated in the bible, and whether those who believe in a literal flood can quote them, or try to make up an answer, or are ok with saying "I just don't know".
 
TimCallahan said:
Since there are already three flood threads going at the present time, I was originally thinking of putting this question into one of them. However, it would have been a bit off-topic for any other them. So, I'm starting this thread in hopes that DOC, edge or any others who consider the flood a historical event can offer a logical explanation for their god's actions. So, here's the question:

If God wanted to wipe out the human race (except for Noah and his family) why also exterminate all the animals and plants? Why not, instead, after conferring immunity on Noah and his family, create a deadly plague that would only kill all the other human beings? Why annihilate sinless animals and plants as well?
Click to expand...
From Pauls' post:
Jesus refers to the state of life before the flood as similar to the days before the son of man appears in our time.
Click to expand...
What you have there from Jesus is the guide.

What was going on before the flood, you may have to read into Enoch to get it.

From what I gather from many writtings is, the fallen angels and men were doing genetic manipulation, not only animals and plants but humans.
The second thing is God buried the fallen during this time but not all of the fallen.
If he was not willing to put down all of them, then he obviously relented and didn't kill off all of humanity also.

In our time now, what are we doing to our food sources, animals and plants?
What is it that science wants to accomplish with humans?


Third did you ever notice how all abduction cases reported or 99% are about genetic manipulation, extraction of genetic materials and is horrific to those who are abducted?

Some of us they can't abduct.
Those that they can't abduct but try to attempt to abduct, when pushed, have to answer our questions.

The one third that God didn't bury under mountains are still here, that is the simplest answer to the questions you have presented.
Because it’s true.
The things people all over the world see and the physics they demonstrate are the last of the demons/fallen...and the control they possess over sciences we haven't figured out yet is what they will offer to us sometime in the future with the great lie. There are things we aren't supposed to do; I believe genetic manipulation is definitely one of those things. Have you tasted the tomatoes lately?
 
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