When do you stop trying to debunk?

aggle-rithm said:
One of the most helpful things I've heard to help me understand memory is: Imagine a hard drive where every read is also a write (the data is constantly being corrupted).
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Yeah, that's a good analogy.
 
The reason skeptics have an uphill battle, and various kinds of woo are easy to convince people of, is that the woo is appealing and the facts are less so.

Like trying to get kids to appreciate a good meal when someone's nearby giving away candy and junk food.
 
Hi, my name is kid meatball, and I'm a debunkaholic.

One should stop when it becomes clear the opponent will never give a point in a debate. Most of these woo believers and CTs are so shaped by their beliefs, that even the slightest acknowledgement that they might be wrong would become a crack in their psyche that might let in all sorts of reason.
 
I think he was probably pretty messed up but I can't imagine anything other then alcohol since he was there for work but I mostly stopped talking about it because I didn't feel like he was completely sure that he actually saw into the future cause he even said it "could have all been in my head but it was still crazy"

I just personally don't understand why you would want to figure out what's really going on with your life/ dreams.
I'm like if people actually have these powers then so may people would have won the lottery and 911 and other attacks would have been stopped. I also feel like I shouldn't judge him too hard since back in my high school days I too believed in some crazy ideas until they just started to slowly fall apart.
 
MarkinVT said:
I think he was probably pretty messed up but I can't imagine anything other then alcohol since he was there for work but I mostly stopped talking about it because I didn't feel like he was completely sure that he actually saw into the future cause he even said it "could have all been in my head but it was still crazy"

I just personally don't understand why you would want to figure out what's really going on with your life/ dreams.
I'm like if people actually have these powers then so may people would have won the lottery and 911 and other attacks would have been stopped. I also feel like I shouldn't judge him too hard since back in my high school days I too believed in some crazy ideas until they just started to slowly fall apart.
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Dream analysis (I'm not talking about Freudian stuff, but rather an attempt to gain personal insight from potentially revealed subconscious rumination) may have non-woo benefits.

I keep a dream diary as a way to monitor potential anxieties, as well as personal entertainment. My wife loves to hear about weird dreams (she doesn't remember any of her dreams for some reason). I've even found a few inspirational concepts to paint and come up with a few lame jokes while dreaming.


Regarding when to stop 'debunking' - this is entirely socially contextual, so it's hard to advise or even develop heuristics or rules of thumb for skeptics in the field, but I have some thoughts that might contribute to the discussion:

  • As aggle-rithm indicates, if the person is demented, psychotic, pathologically anxious, mentally delayed, or pathologically delusional, then arguing with them is unethical because it is abusive. I think most skeptics recognize and accept this.

    Where skeptics fall down is dealing people whose mental illness diagnosis is on Axis II cluster A. This would include paranoids, schizoids, schizotypals. Unfortunately, many persistent woo (and skeptics) fall into this segment of mental illness but are treated as people with dumb ideas due to lay inexperience in diagnosis, and skeptics rarely disengage.
  • When it will permanently damage a valued friendship.
  • When it will impact the skeptic's standing in a valued social group.
  • When there is nothing to be gained from continuing: the individual is not going to change their mind; the time and effort will be wasted and can be used elsewhere.

Just as an anecdote... I had a coworker who was convinced his herbal topical cream was reversing his male pattern balding. After over a year of casual debate, I located two consecutive Christmas party photos - it was clear that he had lost considerable hairline over this period of use. He denied this was true - we were looking at the same pictures and seeing completely different results. At that point I realized he was either delusional or willing to go go the wall of fantasy due to his heavy investment in the product. Debate ended right there.
 
MarkinVT said:
So I was talking to my roommate today who just got back from a music festival and he said he was freaking out a bit because his dreams were becoming reality ..........So I guess im wondering is when should you stop trying to point out flaws in peoples believes ........"
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Sometimes the proper response is just a damn good guffaw.

When you've doubled over with laughing, slapped your thigh a couple of times and wiped some tears from your eyes, the right words are usually along the lines of "Yeah, righto you weirdo, whatever.........Time you bought me a drink"

Being earnest (but correct) isn't always the way to get through to people.
 
Stray Cat said:
When to stop debunking?

I would say it entirely depends on how much effect the bunk is going to have on other people. I am all in favour of individuals being able to believe what ever bunk they choose to believe. The problem comes when they feel a desire to share that bunk with others or in some other way act upon it in a way it effects or influences other people.
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This^^^^^^^^^
 
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