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What is the NRA up to these days?

Ziggurat said:
Since we're talking about guns, it's odd that you use a case where no guns were used (except by police) and no lawmakers injured, rather than one where guns were used, with actual intent to kill lawmakers and multiple injuries.
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It's only odd if you missed my point entirely, which you did.

I was pointing out that a significant number of Congress members' personal safety does not outweigh their adherence to partisan dogma. Even the baseball shooting supports that point.
 
Upchurch said:
It's only odd if you missed my point entirely, which you did.

I was pointing out that a significant number of Congress members' personal safety does not outweigh their adherence to partisan dogma. Even the baseball shooting supports that point.
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I didn't miss your point, you missed my point. The baseball shooting is FAR more relevant to your argument, and supports it much better, yet you picked a much worse example where guns weren't even an issue and no legislator was actually in imminent danger to try to support it.

Why would you pick a worse example to support your point rather than a far better example? Again, I think we all know.
 
Ziggurat said:
Since we're talking about guns, it's odd that you use a case where no guns were used (except by police) and no lawmakers injured, rather than one where guns were used, with actual intent to kill lawmakers and multiple injuries.

Or perhaps it's not odd. Perhaps there's a reason to brush that one under the rug.
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Not a coup attempt, therefore not comparable.

And from your link, note the positive Republican response to the Capitol Police officers who may very well have saved some of their lives:

Several witnesses said their lives were saved by the presence of the Capitol Police, who were there because of Scalise's position as the House Majority Whip. The Capitol Police immediately engaged Hodgkinson and kept him pinned down, preventing him from continuing to fire on the unarmed baseball players. Rep. Davis and Sen. Rand Paul separately said that if not for the presence of the officers, the incident "would have been a massacre."
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President Donald Trump addressed the nation saying, "We are deeply saddened by this tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers are with the members of Congress, their staffs, Capitol Police, first responders, and all others affected."[63] President Trump and his wife Melania visited Scalise and Griner in the hospital. While at the hospital, the Trumps spoke with Scalise's family and with Griner and her wife.[64] On July 27, 2017, Trump awarded the Public Safety Officer Medal of Valor to five of the officers who were injured in the shooting.[65]
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Bit different from the Republican treatment of Capitol Police officers in the wake of the Jan. 6 coup attempt. Just a few examples:

Capitol police testimony blunts GOP's law-and-order message

Republicans Refuse to Reckon With January 6

Police officer responds to GOP claims that Capitol rioters were "tourists"

Capitol Police officer ‘insulted’ after Republicans block January 6 commission and continue to whitewash the attack

I could spend all day adding more, but that's enough to get the point across.

Edited to add: Actually, that's not quite enough. Here's one more:

What Mike Fanone Can't Forget

From that link:

On June 15, the House finally passed legislation awarding gold medals to the Capitol Police and MPD for their valor on Jan. 6. Twenty-one Republicans voted against it, including Clyde. Fanone decided to pay each of them a visit. He and Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn, a 6-ft. 7-in. Black man who’d spent Jan. 6 herding rioters on an interior staircase as they hurled racial slurs, went to each of the 21 lawmakers’ offices, politely requesting to schedule appointments. But the only one they met that day was Clyde.

Fanone spotted him getting into an elevator, and he and Dunn followed Clyde in. “How are you doing, Congressman?” Fanone said as the doors closed, putting out his hand.

Clyde shrank away. “You’re not going to shake my hand?” Fanone said.

“I don’t know who you are,” Clyde said.

“I apologize,” Fanone said, and launched, for the umpteenth time, into his practiced spiel. “My name is Michael Fanone. I’m a D.C. metropolitan police officer who fought on Jan. 6 to defend the Capitol, and as a result I was significantly injured. I sustained a heart attack and a traumatic brain injury after being tased numerous times at the base of my skull, as well as being severely beaten.”

Clyde turned away and started fumbling with his phone. The elevator doors opened, and he bolted. (Clyde later issued a statement acknowledging the elevator encounter but said he did “not recall [Fanone’s] offering to shake hands.”)
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But they'll try to smear Fanone:

Fact Check: Police officer Michael Fanone did not storm the U.S. Capitol waving a Confederate flag

In late July, four police officers who responded to the Jan. 6 insurrection recounted their experience as they fought off the mob of President Donald Trump's supporters who stormed the U.S. Capitol.

One of those officers, Michael Fanone of the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department, described being captured by the crowd. He was shocked with his own stun gun and heard someone shout, "Kill him with his own gun!"

Some Facebook users, however, are falsely asserting the officer was one of the mob, citing photos they claim show Fanone in the Capitol carrying a Confederate flag.

A July 31 post features a compilation of side-by-side images. Three images on the left show a man during the riot carrying a Confederate flag//, and three photos on the right show Fanone.

The caption reads: "Wow... From Insurrection Participant To (Capitol) Police Witness!! Funny How That Works, Huh??"

This claim is carried across similar posts. In some, above the images, there is text that reads "That's suspicious." Various versions of this post together have accumulated nearly 1,500 shares.

Fact check: Misleading claim about 'antifa member' at Jan. 6 Capitol riot

But the man waving the flag and Fanone are not the same person.

USA TODAY reached out to the user who shared the July 31 post for comment.

Images and videos contradict claim

Several news organizations have reported the FBI identified the flag-carrying protester in the images as Kevin Seefried from Delaware. He was arrested Jan. 14 along with his son, Hunter, and charged in connection with the insurrection.
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Just 8 days after the coup attempt, the actual flag carrier was identified and arrested. Of course, this doesn't matter to the social media scumbags. They are still trying to smear Fanone.
 
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Ziggurat said:
I didn't miss your point, you missed my point. The baseball shooting is FAR more relevant to your argument, and supports it much better, yet you picked a much worse example where guns weren't even an issue and no legislator was actually in imminent danger to try to support it.

Why would you pick a worse example to support your point rather than a far better example? Again, I think we all know.
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Hm. I don't think you actually want to know.
 
plague311 said:
The laws in the US will never change with regards to guns. Ever.

It's been said ad nauseum. If the slaughter of children was shrugged off by lawmakers then it's over. Nail in the coffin. The only thing that will ever happen is for gun laws to become more lax in the future. Any conversation about any change is a non-starter from the word "go".
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The biggest problem, regardless of the 2A, is that the US has a gun culture. I watch idiots like MTG and Trump glorifying it with their comments and referring to it as some "freedom" they can resort to if they don't like something.

MTG: “What they don't know is in the South, we all love our Second Amendment rights, and we're not real big on strangers showing up on our front door, are we? They might not like the welcome they get.”

Trump, Aug. 9, 2016: "Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish, the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick --if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. But I'll tell you what, that will be a horrible day, if -- if -- Hillary gets to put her judges in."

Trump, September 16, 2016: "I think that her bodyguards should drop all weapons, they should disarm, right? I think they should disarm. Immediately, what do you think? Yeah, take their guns away. She doesn't want guns. Take their – let's see what happens to her. Take their guns away, OK? It'll be very dangerous."

When the UK suffered the Dunblane Massacre in 1996 that killed a teacher and 16 of her small students, almost the entire country called for stricter gun controls and legislation was passed doing so. When the US suffered several school shootings, including the deaths 26 people including twenty 6-7 year olds at Sandy Hook Elementary in 2012, the NRA fought every measure to tighten gun control. Ten states even passed more "gun rights" laws and not more restrictions. Instead of banning assault style rifles, laws doing so have been challenged and overturned. One CA judge said "California's assault weapon ban disrespects that freedom." Our gun culture has become so entwined with the idea that owning a gun...any type of gun...is somehow a "freedom" that trying to protect lives, even of children, takes second place to that "freedom". Until our gun loving culture changes, plague311 is right. Nothing will change and massacres like Sandy Hook, Columbine, and the Route 91 Harvest music festival in Las Vegas will continue to happen. But God knows, our 'freedom' to own guns is more important than the 15,000 people murdered by guns per year in the US.
 
shemp said:
Not a coup attempt, therefore not comparable.
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His point wasn't about control of government, but about personal safety of legislators and its relevance to gun control. To the extent that the events aren't comparable, the baseball shooting is infinitely more relevant. All your other points here aren't even connected to the subject of this thread or his original argument, and are only about trying to make Republicans look bad. Which is exactly my point.
 
Ziggurat said:
His point wasn't about control of government, but about personal safety of legislators and its relevance to gun control. To the extent that the events aren't comparable, the baseball shooting is infinitely more relevant. All your other points here aren't even connected to the subject of this thread or his original argument, and are only about trying to make Republicans look bad. Which is exactly my point.
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No one has to try and do that. Republicans are doing a great job of that all by themselves with their handling of Covid like DeSantis, vote suppression, and the 'rigged election' crap they're still spewing.
 
Stacyhs said:
No one has to try and do that. Republicans are doing a great job of that all by themselves with their handling of Covid like DeSantis, vote suppression, and the 'rigged election' crap they're still spewing.
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Also, their reaction to 1/9 insurrection investigations.
 
FWIW, I heard on the local conservative talk show station that Dana Loesch, a St. Louis native, was coming back to do a radio show. I can't actually find it online, so maybe I misheard or maybe it's just not out yet.
 
Segnosaur said:
So what you're saying is that even those 100-year old rifles that you said were stuck in some closet somewhere in your family home will need to be registered.

Canada's long-gun registry was costing over $1 billion (and I suspect we probably have fewer firearms per-capita, and a population that is less... rebellious.) Given the differences in population, firearms per capita, etc., the american system would probably cost over $10 billion. Would that be a good use of taxpayer money? (Compared to, for example, putting the money into other crime prevention strategies, such as drug and mental health treatment programs, monitoring of radical far-right groups, etc.)
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There was the cost of setting up the Registry and there was the cost of maintaining it. At least part of the setup cost can be attributed to the push back and active efforts to not co-operate by certain parties. There is disagreement about if having spent a piss pot pile of money it would not have been rational to finish the registration process and continue the system with the database so established. The ongoing cost has been estimated at "between $1,570,000 and $4,025,000 a year". See: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...hat-tories-claim-report-shows/article1461884/

The whole process in Canada was too political to work. In the US of A it would need a revolution.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
There was the cost of setting up the Registry and there was the cost of maintaining it. At least part of the setup cost can be attributed to the push back and active efforts to not co-operate by certain parties. There is disagreement about if having spent a piss pot pile of money it would not have been rational to finish the registration process and continue the system with the database so established. The ongoing cost has been estimated at "between $1,570,000 and $4,025,000 a year". See: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...hat-tories-claim-report-shows/article1461884/

The whole process in Canada was too political to work. In the US of A it would need a revolution.
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Of course it would be fought tooth and toenail by the NRA and 2A "THEY'RE COMING FOR OUR GUNS! MAH FREEDOMS!" nuts. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. They'll spend billions to build a wall that won't stop illegal migrants, but register all usable guns? Hell, no!
 
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