What did Democrats do wrong?

[dirtywick]

MAGA voters do not do any math. They did not even know the first Trump tax cuts made the payroll checks look bigger, but at the end of the year it was not really a cut. They "feel" prices and only vaguely note salaries going up after a delay. They still can't buy a house. It's the Democrats' fault or rarely the Republican president. Those tend to cut things but somehow make that look like a "saving" and the MAGA folks cheer. No more talking traffic lights for the blind people! They should get a dog.

that’s a good point. for example, this year the dollar is down about 10%, so inflation plus a weaker dollar makes it even worse than the numbers appear.

i don’t blame everyone, it’s complicated and a bit esoteric. but obviously being lied to by a propaganda machine and fed only the numbers and slanted data to manipulate them doesn’t help them understand anything either. which is my primary complaint.

 

[Hercules56]

inflation wasn’t uncontrolled, it was remarkably well managed considering the circumstances.

you’ll see what uncontrolled inflation looks like later this year

FED could have raised interest rates MUCH more drastically in early 2022.

 

[Hercules56]

Name one.

1. Monetary Policy:

• Increasing Interest Rates:
  .Opens in new tab
  Central banks can raise interest rates, making borrowing more expensive. This can reduce consumer spending and investment, which in turn can lower demand and help control inflation.
  
  • Controlling the Money Supply:
    .Opens in new tab
    By adjusting the money supply, central banks can influence the amount of money circulating in the economy. Reducing the money supply can help to curb inflation by decreasing the overall level of spending.
    

2. Fiscal Policy:

• • Reducing Government Spending:
    .Opens in new tab
    Government spending can be reduced to lower overall demand in the economy. This can help to cool down the economy and reduce inflationary pressures.
    
  • Increasing Taxes:
    .Opens in new tab
    Raising taxes can reduce disposable income and consumer spending, which can help to reduce demand and lower inflation.
    

3. Supply-Side Policies:

• • Increasing Productivity and Efficiency:
    .Opens in new tab
    Policies that boost productivity and efficiency in the economy can help reduce costs, leading to lower prices and reducing inflationary pressures.
    
  • Deregulation:
    .Opens in new tab
    Deregulation of certain industries can also help to reduce costs and encourage competition, potentially lowering prices.
    

4. Other Measures:

• • Reducing Tariffs:
    .Opens in new tab
    Lowering tariffs on imported goods can increase the supply of goods and services, potentially lowering prices for consumers.
    
  • Addressing Supply-Side Issues:
    .Opens in new tab
    Addressing specific supply-side problems, such as shortages in certain sectors, can help to stabilize prices and reduce inflationary pressures.

 

[Donal]

MAGA voters do not do any math. They did not even know the first Trump tax cuts made the payroll checks look bigger, but at the end of the year it was not really a cut. They "feel" prices and only vaguely note salaries going up after a delay. They still can't buy a house. It's the Democrats' fault or rarely the Republican president. Those tend to cut things but somehow make that look like a "saving" and the MAGA folks cheer. No more talking traffic lights for the blind people! They should get a dog.

I've tried explaining concepts like this. How paying an extra $1 in taxes can net you $6 in your cost of living expenses. All they know is "gubment bad". "Gubmint not efficient". It was the mantra that other mush brain was selling us when he wasn't selling missiles to Iran and giving the money to Latin American warlords.

 

[Donal]

1. Monetary Policy:

• Increasing Interest Rates:
  .Opens in new tab
  Central banks can raise interest rates, making borrowing more expensive. This can reduce consumer spending and investment, which in turn can lower demand and help control inflation.
  • Controlling the Money Supply:
    .Opens in new tab
    By adjusting the money supply, central banks can influence the amount of money circulating in the economy. Reducing the money supply can help to curb inflation by decreasing the overall level of spending.

The president can't do that

2. Fiscal Policy:

• • Reducing Government Spending:
    .Opens in new tab
    Government spending can be reduced to lower overall demand in the economy. This can help to cool down the economy and reduce inflationary pressures.
  • Increasing Taxes:
    .Opens in new tab
    Raising taxes can reduce disposable income and consumer spending, which can help to reduce demand and lower inflation.

Cutting government spending almost always means cutting the services that actually help people get through their day.

3. Supply-Side Policies:

• • Increasing Productivity and Efficiency:
    .Opens in new tab
    Policies that boost productivity and efficiency in the economy can help reduce costs, leading to lower prices and reducing inflationary pressures.
  • Deregulation:
    .Opens in new tab
    Deregulation of certain industries can also help to reduce costs and encourage competition, potentially lowering prices.

O, the ◊◊◊◊ that got us in this mess in the first place. Ya, lets not.

4. Other Measures:

• • Reducing Tariffs:
    .Opens in new tab
    Lowering tariffs on imported goods can increase the supply of goods and services, potentially lowering prices for consumers.

Which flies in the face of your other Supply Side policies

• • Addressing Supply-Side Issues:
    .Opens in new tab
    Addressing specific supply-side problems, such as shortages in certain sectors, can help to stabilize prices and reduce inflationary pressures.

You mean like encourage housing construction? Which the Biden administration was trying to do?

 

[d4m10n]

inflation wasn’t uncontrolled, it was remarkably well managed considering the circumstances.

Agreed, that was poor wording on my part.

I'm not sure if there was any way to get this across to the relatively low-engagement voters who turned out to decide the election.

 

[Olmstead]

1. Monetary Policy:

• Increasing Interest Rates:
  .Opens in new tab
  Central banks can raise interest rates, making borrowing more expensive. This can reduce consumer spending and investment, which in turn can lower demand and help control inflation.
  • Controlling the Money Supply:
    .Opens in new tab
    By adjusting the money supply, central banks can influence the amount of money circulating in the economy. Reducing the money supply can help to curb inflation by decreasing the overall level of spending.

2. Fiscal Policy:

• • Reducing Government Spending:
    .Opens in new tab
    Government spending can be reduced to lower overall demand in the economy. This can help to cool down the economy and reduce inflationary pressures.
  • Increasing Taxes:
    .Opens in new tab
    Raising taxes can reduce disposable income and consumer spending, which can help to reduce demand and lower inflation.

3. Supply-Side Policies:

• • Increasing Productivity and Efficiency:
    .Opens in new tab
    Policies that boost productivity and efficiency in the economy can help reduce costs, leading to lower prices and reducing inflationary pressures.
  • Deregulation:
    .Opens in new tab
    Deregulation of certain industries can also help to reduce costs and encourage competition, potentially lowering prices.

4. Other Measures:

• • Reducing Tariffs:
    .Opens in new tab
    Lowering tariffs on imported goods can increase the supply of goods and services, potentially lowering prices for consumers.
  • Addressing Supply-Side Issues:
    .Opens in new tab
    Addressing specific supply-side problems, such as shortages in certain sectors, can help to stabilize prices and reduce inflationary pressures.

I'm sure many of those options are debatable. Maybe economists can weigh in.

But that's not really the crux of your argument. You've acknowledged that maybe inflation wasn't controllable, yet Biden should have shown more sympathy. Now you're saying that he should have shown sympathy by being more effective. Or by trying things that wouldn't work.

 

[dirtywick]

Agreed, that was poor wording on my part.

I'm not sure if there was any way to get this across to the relatively low-engagement voters who turned out to decide the election.

i agree it’s difficult to convey.

 

[Hercules56]

The president can't do that

He can push for it and demand it.

Cutting government spending almost always means cutting the services that actually help people get through their day.

Can cut military waste.

Can raise taxes.

 

[dirtywick]

it must be understood that government spending was increased, in terms of welfare and loans, and rates dropped to keep the economy moving due to covid and it’s recovery. inflation was expected.

many of the traditional options to control inflation weren’t available due to that.

 

[Donal]

He can push for it and demand it.

Demand it? If he wants to look like a angry old man, sure.

Can cut military waste.

Good luck with that. Again, it always always means cutting services people use.

Can raise taxes.

He said he would do that. And we decided we care more about billionaires' investment portfolios than our families' welfare

 

[d4m10n]

Catalist releases What Happened in 2024 report, which consists mostly of demographic analyses.

Yglesias makes a decent argument that pragmatic answers for Dems won't be found in demographic analyses.

 

[Garrison]

And if 'my' reason isn't on the poll?
And for the record I think it's because they're consistently terrible at messaging and letting the other side define the talking points.

And Trump being very clear about what he was going to do wasn't a good enough reason for people to get off their asses and vote for Harris? Sorry but all these excuses for people failing to get out and do something when it mattered are purely self-serving.

 

[Hercules56]

And Trump being very clear about what he was going to do wasn't a good enough reason for people to get off their asses and vote for Harris? Sorry but all these excuses for people failing to get out and do something when it mattered are purely self-serving.

Indeed, it was VERY clear what damage trump wanted to do to our country, and VERY clear what the Democrats were going to do instead.

There was no question at all what the Democrats were going to do regarding taxes, the environment, healthcare, immigration, etc.

 

[d4m10n]

There was no question at all what the Democrats were going to do regarding taxes, the environment, healthcare, immigration, etc.

Only one of those issues is really in the Dems favor, according to the researchers at Blue Rose (jump to pg. 14).

Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias take Blue Rose pretty seriously, so I'm inclined to do so as well. Certainly it's more useful in terms of messaging than the one from Catalist. At any rate, it's pretty hard to read that report and come away optimistic, given the macro-level trends.

 

[Donal]

Even if one were to take Yglesias or Klein seriously, and no one should, all that goes to show is the difference between perception and reality. The Democrats' biggest errors in this regard is letting the GQP drive the narrative and playing defense. Moving to the right was holding up a sign saying "WE AGREE WITH THE REPUBLICANS". Who the hell was supposed to be moved by that message?

 

[d4m10n]

Moving to the right was holding up a sign saying "WE AGREE WITH THE REPUBLICANS".

Speaking of perception vs. reality, upon which of those issues did the DNC or the Biden/Harris campaign start "moving to the right" in your view?

To be fully persuasive, I'd need to see a before/after from 2020 to 2024 or something like that.

 

[esquel]

IMO, there has been a long very slow drift to the right since the 70s. However, I couldn't really point to any specific inflection point

 

[Donal]

Speaking of perception vs. reality, upon which of those issues did the DNC or the Biden/Harris campaign start "moving to the right" in your view?

To be fully persuasive, I'd need to see a before/after from 2020 to 2024 or something like that.

Specifically Harris? Campaigning with Liz Cheney. she had more public appearances with the daughter of the architect of the Iraq War than any Democrat, including her own VP pick.

Democrats in general have been running right for over 40 years. The response to Trump's address to Congress earlier this year was to send a refuge from the Bush II admin to breathlessly exalt Ronald Reagan and tell us how great Republicans are.

 

[Hercules56]

Apparently I forgot to add something to the poll which explains why many of my fellow Chosen folk voted against Kamala:

-the Democrats dared to question Israeli annihilation and starvation of Gaza.