What did Democrats do wrong?

What did Democrats do wrong?

  • Didn't fight inflation enough.

    Votes: 12 15.2%
  • Didn't fight illegal immigration enough.

    Votes: 22 27.8%
  • Too much focus on abortion.

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Too much transgender stuff.

    Votes: 28 35.4%
  • America not ready for Progressive women leader.

    Votes: 26 32.9%
  • Should have kept Joe.

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • Not enough focus on new jobs.

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Nothing, Trump cheated & played dirty!

    Votes: 14 17.7%
  • Didn't stop Gaza War.

    Votes: 8 10.1%
  • I can be Agent M.

    Votes: 6 7.6%

  • Total voters
    79
Could one political party have done better at messaging this vital and highly relevant fact?
Not if the audience simply refuses to listen. If a segment of the population believes everything that doesn't fit their accepted sources is a lie, it doesn't matter what any other source says. Especially if that source is their avowed enemy.

You cannot reason with someone who refuses to listen to argument or accept evidence.
 
“Trump voters are stupid” is a refutation of the premise that Democrats did something wrong.
Democratic operatives and party elites can now sleep well at night knowing that they literally could not have improved anything at all.

Thanks for your thoughtful and substantive contribution, everyone can move on to other threads now.

First, it should be said that the person you were responding to did not say "voters are stupid." They were pretty clearly saying "People who voted for Trump are stupid." And it's true, that's a stupid thing to do.
Whether or not it is a stupid thing to do depends on an individual voter's end goals. If they are, for example, primarily focused on tax cuts for wealthy people and their corporate interests, it may be the best path to get where they are hoping to go. Other examples would be voters hoping to roll back the federal administrative bureaucracy or do a mass deportation.

Second, this has clear implications on what Democrats did wrong. They relied on voters to not do stupid things.
"Stupid things" is way too vague and (ironically enough) it's also a strategically foolish way to conceptualize swing voters whom the party is hoping to win back. Replacing that vagueness with specificity, Democrats relied on voters not to kick out the incumbent party on account of widespread dissatisfaction with two or three major issues generally thought to be salient to swing voters, which is what swing voters nearly always do.

Someone like Hillary Scholten might be good (she has impeccable liberal bona fides, she flipped a midwestern seat held by Republicans for 50 years in 2022, won by over ten points this year despite her state going for Trump, gives off a strong normcore image, and was retaliated against by Biden allies for being among the first to call for him to stop down, which allows her to distance herself from an unpopular administration.)
One possible answer to the OP might be "Democrats failed to follow through on Biden's implicit promise to serve only one term and then allow for someone like Hillary Scholten to win the party nomination in a fully open primary process."

No incumbent party has ever won with the index of consumer sentiment as low as it currently is. This stuff matters way more than who is stupid, or who is a meanie-pants for saying so.
Another possible answer to the OP would be that "Democrats failed to adequately message the extent to which Trump's proposed tariffs will exacerbate consumer adversity." There has to be some way to say this such that even "stupid" voters get it.
 
Whether or not it is a stupid thing to do depends on an individual voter's end goals. If they are, for example, primarily focused on tax cuts for wealthy people and their corporate interests, it may be the best path to get where they are hoping to go. Other examples would be voters hoping to roll back the federal administrative bureaucracy or do a mass deportation.
None of those things matter if you deprive yourself of a responsive democracy. Which is a stupid, self-defeating thing to do.

"Stupid things" is way too vague and (ironically enough) it's also a sutrategically foolish way to conceptualize swing voters whom the party is hoping to win back. Replacing that vagueness with specificity, Democrats relied on voters not to kick out the incumbent party on account of widespread dissatisfaction with two or three major issues generally thought to be salient to swing voters, which is what swing voters nearly always do.
No, I don't think it's accurate to say that Democrats relied on voters to do this. They made an argument for why voters should vote for an incumbent party, despite the fact that that party presided over high rates of inflation. That argument failed, but it's not like it wasn't made.

One possible answer to the OP might be "Democrats failed to follow through on Biden's implicit promise to serve only one term and then allow for someone like Hillary Scholten to win the party nomination in a fully open primary process."
Sure, but that's been mentioned many times, and I don't think anyone disagrees that this was an error.

Another possible answer to the OP would be that "Democrats failed to adequately message the extent to which Trump's proposed tariffs will exacerbate consumer adversity." There has to be some way to say this such that even "stupid" voters get it.
I don't see any reason to believe that. It's a technical argument that relies on expert opinions that are likely to be rejected because they are expert opinions. You have to imagine that voters are simultaneously disillusioned with the professional managerial classes and willing to listen to them for this idea to work. You also have to imagine that voters are really paying much attention at all.
 
None of those things matter if you deprive yourself of a responsive democracy.
Given all the various times and places in which citizens have voted an open authoritarian into power, it is clearly incorrect to assume all voters value "responsive democracy" among their top priorities. Of course, they probably should but as I said before we cannot reasonably expect everyone to value the same things we do.
They made an argument for why voters should vote for an incumbent party, despite the fact that that party presided over high rates of inflation. That argument failed, but it's not like it wasn't made.
Can we get a good example of the argument they made?
It's a technical argument that relies on expert opinions that are likely to be rejected because they are expert opinions.
Come now, the inference from increased import prices to increased domestic prices can be illustrated in a single cartoon. No need to cite experts, even people with median IQs and thereabouts can make the leap from increased import costs to increased costs at their local Wal*Mart or any other chain store heavily stocked with imported goods.
 
Given all the various times and places in which citizens have voted an open authoritarian into power, it is clearly incorrect to assume all voters value "responsive democracy" among their top priorities.
The isn't that they do value responsive democracy. It's that addressing voter interests relies on formal mechanisms by which those interests can be enacted. Depriving yourself of those mechanisms means you have no reason to expect that your interests will even be attended to, let alone fulfilled. It's self-defeating, which means it's a bad move.

Can we get a good example of the argument they made?
Specific plans for economic relief, bipartisan border bill, abortion rights, the insanity and authoritarian tendencies of her opponent, etc. I don't want to replay her campaign, but it's not difficult to find the arguments that were made.

Come now, the inference from increased import prices to increased domestic prices can be illustrated in a single cartoon.
I think you're being optimistic if you think most people will understand that cartoon, let alone be persuaded by it.

No need to cite experts, even people with median IQs and thereabouts can make the leap from increased import costs to increased costs at their local Wal*Mart or any other chain store heavily stocked with imported goods.
I'm not inclined to rely on dubious psychometrics, but consider what you're saying. Half of the country is below the median intelligence, by definition. And of course someone might say, "Sure, it will lead to higher prices at S-Mart, but it will also bring back jobs to America! It'll be better overall!" At which point the argument becomes more technical and difficult. You're not just explaining, you're combating the countervailing message, which has more truthiness to it.
 
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Working class people perceive the Democrats as the party of the (academic, artistic, Hollywood-style) elite, which doesn’t represent their views. Plus, they are fed up with being treated as stupid, deplorable, uneducated, trash, racist, fascist and so on. They want their voice to be heard.

They may well be wrong but they do exist, and they have to be taken into account.

As somebody (Stalin? I am not sure) said: “I don’t have other people for you”. This means you have to work with what you have.

Trump, as a populist, understands this. It seems, Democrats do not.
 
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1 - not fear mongering (& if you think it is, you should be willing to debate it in that thread). 2 - I've pointed to multiple (notable) folks who believe that this ideology hurt the Dems - that's exactly on point for the thread. 3- I think it's clear Harris did not campaign on trans-issues because her team realized it would hurt the campaign. 4 - I am a Dem and wanted them to win (though in recent years think that political parties, or at least an effective 2 party system are bad for the country). 5- there's plenty of reasons for the Dems losing- i think this also contributed (& doesn't help for future elections)
The democrats cannot row back on Trans issues because the damage that has been done to children on their watch and by the instigation of Richard/Rachel Levine, who recently advocated removing all age restrictions on medically and surgically altering the bodies of children and young people. This is comprehensively reported in granular detail by scores of concerned adults all over X and youtube, but almost never on traditional media, which is why it is such a mystery to regulars here.
Is this what the democrats did wrong?
Yep, I think so.
This is an albatross Obama shot.
Leor Sapir is possibly the best chronicler of this human catastrophe.

Seeing democrats here demand this be taken to the other thread where they can't see it is no surprise.
 
Working class people perceive the Democrats as the party of the (academic, artistic, Hollywood-style) elite, which doesn’t represent their views. Plus, they are fed up with being treated as stupid, deplorable, uneducated, trash, racist, fascist and so on. They want their voice to be heard.

They may well be wrong but they do exist, and they have to be taken into account.

As somebody (Stalin? I am not sure) said: “I don’t have other people for you”. You have to work with what you have.

Trump, as a populist, understands this. It seems, Democrats do not.
 
Specific plans for economic relief, bipartisan border bill, abortion rights, the insanity and authoritarian tendencies of her opponent, etc. I don't want to replay her campaign, but it's not difficult to find the arguments that were made.
I don't remember any arguments that were made which actually addressed "the fact that that party presided over high rates of inflation" but maybe I misunderstood your meaning on that point.
"Sure, it will lead to higher prices at S-Mart, but it will also bring back jobs to America!"
I also don't remember any arguments that were made which actually addressed the "higher prices at S-Mart" problem, but living in a very red state we weren't exactly targeted with ads.

Overall, I wasn't particularly impressed with Democratic Party messaging on major issues listed in the top few rows in this table. Not that I'm saying messaging is all that matters here, but they didn't often explain how tariffs and mass deportation will make everything from groceries to housing harder to produce and more expensive.
 
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There is no point dumping wokeness. Let 4 years pass and the voters will know who “did it” this time.the usual pendulum.The woke issues are the coalition. And the permissiveness can stay there (trans rights etc) as long as you don’t make it a big issue. Abortion was a big issue, don’t know what to do with that. But point out that senators and congressmen and state level politicians are practicing medicine. Treating miscarriages is now banned.
On the plus side, there were millions who showed up to vote for Trump. And nothing else. They have no 2028 candidate. Vance will fail.
 
Democratic operatives and party elites can now sleep well at night knowing that they literally could not have improved anything at all.

Thanks for your thoughtful and substantive contribution, everyone can move on to other threads now.

Just because you’ve uncritically accepted the premise that Trump voters can be reasoned with doesn’t mean anyone else has to, and I don’t see you or anyone else in this thread offering any bright ideas of your own.

So far, the best we’ve gotten from all the serious thinkers here is that Democrats should not run on things they didn’t run on in the first place and don’t offend the delicate sensibilities of people who voted for guy whose entire personality is being as offensive as possible.
 
I don't remember any arguments that were made which actually addressed "the fact that that party presided over high rates of inflation" but maybe I misunderstood your meaning on that point.
The principle argument there is that they did a better job keeping inflation in check than other developed countries. But you're arguing against feelings there, and it's mostly pointless.

Overall, I wasn't particularly impressed with Democratic Party messaging on major issues listed in the top few rows in this table. Not that I'm saying messaging is all that matters here, but they didn't often explain how tariffs and mass deportation will make everything from groceries to housing harder to produce and more expensive.
They explained that often enough, and (maybe more importantly) so did the media. There's not much you can do to make people tune in, and that's sort of the problem. Uninformed voters are uninformed because they aren't seeking good information. How do you make them listen?
 
Just because you’ve uncritically accepted the premise that Trump voters can be reasoned with doesn’t mean anyone else has to, and I don’t see you or anyone else in this thread offering any bright ideas of your own.
To be clear, do you see any difference between swing voters and Trump voters? I've been talking about people who are persuadable rather than people who are flying MAGA flags, since the OP asked how the Democrats could have pulled more votes this time around.
 
The principle argument there is that they did a better job keeping inflation in check than other developed countries.
As a Maddow viewer (yes, I'm an AARP member) I'm fully aware of the argument.

Were Democratic electioneers actually messaging it or did they mostly ignore inflation and focus on other topics?

How do you make them listen?
An excellent question!

Evidently it is not enough to dominate ad space.
 
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As a Maddow viewer, I'm fully aware of the argument.
Then why say this:

I don't remember any arguments that were made which actually addressed "the fact that that party presided over high rates of inflation" but maybe I misunderstood your meaning on that point.

What else could they possibly do but say it was a good effort in a difficult category? That the economy is doing pretty well, akshually?

There's no denying the reality of high inflation rates.
 
Then why say this...
Because I don't count news media directed at Democratic partisans to be part of Harris' messaging effort.

Were Democratic electioneers actually messaging this argument or did they mostly ignore inflation and focus on other topics?
 
Whether or not it is a stupid thing to do depends on an individual voter's end goals. If they are, for example, primarily focused on tax cuts for wealthy people and their corporate interests, it may be the best path to get where they are hoping to go. Other examples would be voters hoping to roll back the federal administrative bureaucracy or do a mass deportation.
They voted to put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health. That’s an objectively stupid thing to do.
"Stupid things" is way too vague and (ironically enough) it's also a strategically foolish way to conceptualize swing voters whom the party is hoping to win back. Replacing that vagueness with specificity, Democrats relied on voters not to kick out the incumbent party on account of widespread dissatisfaction with two or three major issues generally thought to be salient to swing voters, which is what swing voters nearly always do.

They voted to put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health. There’s nothing vague about how stupid that is.


One possible answer to the OP might be "Democrats failed to follow through on Biden's implicit promise to serve only one term and then allow for someone like Hillary Scholten to win the party nomination in a fully open primary process."
And then they voted to put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health. Totally tracks. Great analysis.

Another possible answer to the OP would be that "Democrats failed to adequately message the extent to which Trump's proposed tariffs will exacerbate consumer adversity." There has to be some way to say this such that even "stupid" voters get it.
Democrats talked about the tariffs all the time. Almost as much as they didn’t talk about gender identity issues. Maybe they should have talked more about how polio is bad because that’s what these idiots decided to vote for.
 
To be clear, do you see any difference between swing voters and Trump voters? I've been talking about people who are persuadable rather than people who are flying MAGA flags, since the OP asked how the Democrats could have pulled more votes this time around.
A Trump voter is anyone who voted for Trump, by definition. Whether they were always in the tank for Trump or were eventually persuaded by his well-articulated position on pet-eating migrants, they’re all Trump voters.
 

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